Osler's Razor

BUT IT WORKED SO WELL FOR NEWT GINGRICH!!!
 

It's deja vu all over again (Yogi Berra)
 

i think that it is a good idea because obama is bad and his care is bad and it is socialist. which is bad. obamacare makes socialism. because it makes people do things (i'm not sure what the law does, exactly). it is good they are going to stop things to think hard and figure out about the care law or obama.
 

No caps guy is a great example of self-administered pain management gone wrong.
 

my medication isn't for pain. it is so that i can use the bathroom.
 

Boehner is a one trick pony. No imagination, destructive. Everyone should just move to Texas where we have the most uninsured people in the nation. It works so well for us here. People should take note and copy what we do here!
 

So far (after five comments), this discussion has been as serious and constructive as Congress. I cast no stones at my fellow Razorites. I share frustration.

I really hate the #defund not because I have confidence in the President or ACA (which, unfortunately, unfathomably, the President encourages people to call "Obamacare").

But I hate the defund because it is un-American. Obamacare does not poll well (not quite as bad as bombing Syria--but pretty unpopular). Nevertheless, the GOP has not been able to capitalize on the public skepticism in an American election because, Mark, as you say, they have not offered an alternative (or even a rational critique).

Now the GOP proposes to make policy through political stultification. We are a minority in the Senate and the President is still president (even after two elections in which we attempted but failed to capitalize on this very issue). Now we are going to obstruct the bowels of government until the American body politic cries out for relief. Contemptible!

The way to make policy is to craft ideas and campaign on them and win and legislate with a mandate (sort of what Obama did with Obamacare in 2009).

Short Answer: I think this is a big loser.
 

WF, part of the loss is that I think Republicans DO have some issues to press that are not losers, and are good for the country to boot. However, this will suck all of the air out of the room.
 

I agree completely, Mark. Lots of big issues. Lots of important issues. Lots of opportunities (out of dire necessity) to fill a leadership vacuum, offer policy solutions, and chart a path forward.

I am increasingly convinced that the GOP will not be the vehicle that saves America. Of course, I am no more confident in the Democrats than I ever was (in fact, I am more and more convinced that they are happily leading us toward cataclysmic unsustainability).

But, as we leave the period of American history in which even fools could look like wise leaders, we are definitely in need of something revolutionary.
 

Much as we disagree about some things, WF, I think on the big picture we agree-- that Americans need to accept some level of sacrifice to bring spending back into balance with revenues. Our political system seems absolutely unable to accomplish this, under either party.

We want a gigantic military
We want social security to never be altered
We want bursting prisons
We want free health care. and...
We want taxes to stay where they are or be lowered

It just doesn't work.
 

Why did we have to get all serious on this, both sides don’t seem to take their jobs that serious (by the way how much are we paying these puppets?). I just want to thank WF for adding “stultification” to my vocabulary and to no caps guy for edification on the multiple advantages of being stoned via legit medication.
 

Right. There is no ONE road map to survival--but every viable solution involves a serious reckoning, some hard choices, and innovative thinking. Thus far, neither party seems interested in any of those elements. Of course, they are after all political parties, which are designed to give us what we want, which gets right back to your diagnosis.
 

Marta - I'm with you on the seriousness issue today, but then I am sleep deprived thanks to the road paving crew that worked last night at the foot of our driveway. I to would like to thank WF for this thought : Now we are going to obstruct the bowels of government .." Perhaps we should send Congress a giant vat of Milk of Magnesia.

Sorry it is the sleep deprivation - yawn....
 

Thanks, Marta. Sorry, Christine. I was trying hard NOT to use the word "constipation." But that really is the metaphor that keeps haunting me.
 

All of the systemic reforms proposed over the last 50 years to address the rising cost of health care fall into three categories. (1) government take over of the entirety, owning the hospitals, employing the doctors, etc., aka socialized medicine. (2) Expanding Medicare to cover the entire population, replacing the insurance industry except as paper processors for the government, aka single payer, a mild form of socialized medicine, with non-government hospitals and doctors in private practice. (3) Mandatory, but subsidized private insurance, with private hospitals and doctors in private practice, which was the conservative alternative to (1) and (2) until Obama decided to support it.

The basics of the Affordable Care Act were originally proposed by a conservative think tank and have been endorsed in the past by Reagan, Dole, Gingrich, Nixon, and many other Republicans of national note. It was only when Obama decided that was the best he could get for the American public and endorsed the idea that it became anathema to the Republicans.
 

WF - I would not disagree with your use of that word. It is so very appropriate.
 

With regard to medical care. Until we remove for the 'for profit' ~ 'line the share holder and CEO pocket' concept of health insurance the rates will not fall. With or without the funding of the ACA. But I would like to know that I won't be priced out of insurance or sent into bankruptcy if one of us gets seriously ill (prior to aging into what will be left of Medicare)
 

The ACA contains limits on health insurers. They must pay out a set percentage in benefits, and have a set percentage for their work processing the paperwork, executive compensation, etc. If they collect too much in premiums, they have to rebate that to whomever paid it.
 

WF = that part of ACA is already in effect. We have private insurance and have received a refund from Human 2 years in a row.

I am very concerned that Congress is tying the defunding of parts of the ACA with the government shutdown. How about those who oppose put some alternatives on the table. The status quo in health care is not working for most Americans.
 

What is most troubling to me about this whole discussion is that the force and funding behind defunding ACA are the groups who finance the tea party.
These invisible operatives do not care about healthcare or the economy. They are using this issue to line their pockets, preying on the gullible. They want government off their backs so they can make bigger bundles of money, doing whatever they do.

By creating fear of government in the less informed citizens they are using false fears of this law to raise money for their causes. They do this knowing that the law is not going to change. Meanwhile, a lot of DONATE HERE buttons are being pushed.

What we have is some moneyed interest working though their lackeys threatening to wreak havoc with our economy just to raise money. This is a small minority of rascals with an enormous power to do harm.

If these groups lived in the middle east and carried out these threats to our financial security we would threaten to bomb them.

Is anyone interested who they are? Should we get money out of politics on both sides of the isle?