Wednesday, November 05, 2008
A Night to Remember, White and Black, Democrat and Republican
Barack Obama will be sworn in as president of the United States in January. To get there, he had to defeat a remarkable man, Sen. John McCain. Some of my best friends supported McCain, and for the right reasons-- because they believed in the good and true principles that McCain expressed, and believed, correctly, that he had the experience and judgment to be a strong president. Among the many decent things about the John McCain, it was remarkable that he refrained, out of a sense of fairness and decency, from attacking the former pastor of Barack Obama's church. McCain valued some things more than being elected, and that is America at its best.
As set out in the preceding post, I voted for Barack Obama because I supported his view on issues I care most about. I did not vote for him (or against him) because of race. However, now that he has been elected, we must recognize the moment that this is in our nation's history. It is a remarkable night, and a victory for the American people, white and black, Republican and Democrat. A black man will be president of the United States, and it is not because he is black-- it is because of the "content of his character," as another man standing on the steps of the Lincoln Monument forty-five years ago said to a crowd who may have considered it a ridiculous dream.
My first memory is of my city burning. (My family lived in the City of Detroit at the time; we moved to Grosse Pointe after, and because of, the riots). I was four years old when Detroit was burned from the inside out. The National Guard occupied my home town, and there were tanks, tanks in the streets. I remember the smell of the oily smoke. That is how bad the issues of race were when I was a child.
And now, we have come to this.
Whether you voted for Sen. Obama or not, I hope you will take some joy in the fact that our nation, in my lifetime, has come in some small way to fulfill the dream that Dr. King described in a troubled and dangerous time.
America is a great country, and it is ours, all of ours. Over the months to come, President Obama will make mistakes, will depart from his principles, disappoint us at times. Hopefully (and we all should hope this), at times he will also show wisdom and strength.
To everything there is a season, and this, regardless of your politics, is a time to rejoice for what we have moved beyond. God may bless these United States, but sometimes the grace comes not from God, but from ourselves as we transcend our weaknesses and heal those wounds that hurt the most. John McCain and Barack Obama, in different ways, both exemplify what is best about America, and it is only because of them both that this moment can be real and whole and deep in a way we have too long awaited.
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The most memorable images of tonight, for me, came as it became clear that Obana would win. Time and again, the camera focused on the surviving veterans of the brutal, bitter campaign for Civil Rights ... and in every case, their were tears of joy on their old, sometimes scarred faces. Rep. John Lewis, in particular, moved me ... as did Jesse Jackson, who couldn't stop the tears all evening. What a night!
RFDIII
RFDIII
# posted by 
: 1:13 AM
: 1:13 AM 
I have re-read my own post from yesterday. AT risk of digging a deeper hole I feel like I should rewrite it to clarify my ideas not only to the Razor, but also in my own mind.
I would have voted for Obama because of his character and his policies no matter what his race. I stated that I supported him because of his race. And this was, correctly, ridiculed by at least one responder. A truer statement of my feelings would have been to say that his race added, for me, excitement, promise, hope, optimism.... I don't know how to say it. I suppose some cynics would call it novelty, but I reject that.
Being part of this forum forces me to try expressing, in logical and readable terms, my feelings and opinions. For me this is a relatively new challenge. Occasionally I feel like I succeed. Many times I don't. But I enjoy the exercise.
I would have voted for Obama because of his character and his policies no matter what his race. I stated that I supported him because of his race. And this was, correctly, ridiculed by at least one responder. A truer statement of my feelings would have been to say that his race added, for me, excitement, promise, hope, optimism.... I don't know how to say it. I suppose some cynics would call it novelty, but I reject that.
Being part of this forum forces me to try expressing, in logical and readable terms, my feelings and opinions. For me this is a relatively new challenge. Occasionally I feel like I succeed. Many times I don't. But I enjoy the exercise.
Sleepy-- you almost always succeed, actually.
Jesse-- Yeah, Harper's Ferry... that's an image of real resonance in American History. Literally a crossroads, a Northern town, a Southern town, a place of victory and defeat for both the North and the South, then for African-Americans, and still... just a small town.
Jesse-- Yeah, Harper's Ferry... that's an image of real resonance in American History. Literally a crossroads, a Northern town, a Southern town, a place of victory and defeat for both the North and the South, then for African-Americans, and still... just a small town.
Sleepy, I got it, and I feel it too. Pretending that we have all attained colorblindness is far more offensive to me.
Representative Lewis said of the victory, "It is unbelievable that we have come such a distance in such a short time." I believe this, we must continue to strive for equality, because we are moving along, but are not there yet.
That said, I am on cloud nine today!! A feel that a song should be ringing from the rafters!! :D
Representative Lewis said of the victory, "It is unbelievable that we have come such a distance in such a short time." I believe this, we must continue to strive for equality, because we are moving along, but are not there yet.
That said, I am on cloud nine today!! A feel that a song should be ringing from the rafters!! :D
But still there are idiots at Baylor. What is the problem with "Brooks Village?" That's the same place where last year they started the stupid fight over the eternal flame.
# posted by : 10:07 AM
: 10:07 AM
Well said, well said.
My youth didn't have open riots, but I remember well water fountains labeled "White" and "Black."
This is an historic moment--a defining turn--a day of optimism and happiness.
My youth didn't have open riots, but I remember well water fountains labeled "White" and "Black."
This is an historic moment--a defining turn--a day of optimism and happiness.
# posted by : 10:16 AM
: 10:16 AM
Brooks College is the Hogwarts of Baylor-- they actually built it to look like Hogwarts. It attracts a large number of fundamentalist students.
# posted by : 10:39 AM
: 10:39 AM
When it was over, I cried.
Tonight we will toast the country and the hope we can all move forward as a more united country at home and abroad.
I hope we can shed the Red and Blue labels that have defined and separated us for too long. I don't think this country can move forward until we start shedding these labels that drive deep wedges between us all.
I stayed true to myself and did not start watching (I was listening) the networks until after 9pm EST and in fairness to all points of view I even watched Fox News for a while. It was a somber atmosphere. I also tried to avoid Chris Matthew's on MSNBC because when he is excited he just can't shut up (enough already, we know you are happy). Stop gloating it is not a becoming trait.
I found McCain's speech very gracious, perhaps one of the best he has ever made. He will continue to serve us all in the Senate and his style of reaching across the aisle will be appreciated by all.
Fortunately, I don't remember Detroit burning, only the stories. My family already lived in the insulated cacoon of GP. I do remember the threat of 'busing' and my parents contemplating sending us to catholic school. I do remember riots during high school when our 'lily' white basketball team was making a run for a State berth. It was scary and sad at the same time.
I am today hopeful for the future.
Tonight we will toast the country and the hope we can all move forward as a more united country at home and abroad.
I hope we can shed the Red and Blue labels that have defined and separated us for too long. I don't think this country can move forward until we start shedding these labels that drive deep wedges between us all.
I stayed true to myself and did not start watching (I was listening) the networks until after 9pm EST and in fairness to all points of view I even watched Fox News for a while. It was a somber atmosphere. I also tried to avoid Chris Matthew's on MSNBC because when he is excited he just can't shut up (enough already, we know you are happy). Stop gloating it is not a becoming trait.
I found McCain's speech very gracious, perhaps one of the best he has ever made. He will continue to serve us all in the Senate and his style of reaching across the aisle will be appreciated by all.
Fortunately, I don't remember Detroit burning, only the stories. My family already lived in the insulated cacoon of GP. I do remember the threat of 'busing' and my parents contemplating sending us to catholic school. I do remember riots during high school when our 'lily' white basketball team was making a run for a State berth. It was scary and sad at the same time.
I am today hopeful for the future.
Christine, watching Fox news! It IS a historic day, ha ha! I will try to keep my gloating in check... I would like to hear more about Detriot burning, it sounds frightening, and the Devil's night thing, what is up with that?
I can appreciate the black struggle for equality in all things. It will probably not happen in our lifetimes, but last night's election was another step in the right direction. Lewis is very correct in his perception that it hasn't happened yet -- and it may never happen.
If it's not one thing, it will be another. We can always find reasons to hate our brethren -- White, black makes no difference. There are always Catholics for Baptists to disagree with, Presbyterians can't agree with the Episcopalians on who's more inclusive. There will always be a Chamberlain and an opposing Hitler. Mark Twain put it succinctly, "It's the difference in opinion that makes a horse race." Unfortunately, it's the lack of reasonable tolerance for that opinion that creates the problem.
Poor Jesse Jackson, he must have been very conflicted last night. His tears realized a dream of the Black Man in power, but they also bespoke of the death of Jackson's corporate blackmail for "delivery" of the black vote. It wasn't Jesse's machine that got Obama elected. Step aside you old power brokers, there's a new kid in town and the rules have changed.
If it's not one thing, it will be another. We can always find reasons to hate our brethren -- White, black makes no difference. There are always Catholics for Baptists to disagree with, Presbyterians can't agree with the Episcopalians on who's more inclusive. There will always be a Chamberlain and an opposing Hitler. Mark Twain put it succinctly, "It's the difference in opinion that makes a horse race." Unfortunately, it's the lack of reasonable tolerance for that opinion that creates the problem.
Poor Jesse Jackson, he must have been very conflicted last night. His tears realized a dream of the Black Man in power, but they also bespoke of the death of Jackson's corporate blackmail for "delivery" of the black vote. It wasn't Jesse's machine that got Obama elected. Step aside you old power brokers, there's a new kid in town and the rules have changed.
Ginger ~
It is always good to know what the other side is saying and thinking.
I have tried to find more info on Detroit during this time frame and there is very little written. One book I found on-line seemed to indicate that the racial tensions really became strained with an influx of 'hill-billies'. Prior to this influx, everyone 'knew' their place ethnically( white, black, hispanic, and various ethnic european groups)and in the job pecking order. The hill-billies were apparently even poorer than the blacks in Detroit but thought they should skip a few rungs on the 'so-called' ladder.
That's all I really know, Prof might have some more insight and perhaps a differnt post would be an interseting place to address this.
It is always good to know what the other side is saying and thinking.
I have tried to find more info on Detroit during this time frame and there is very little written. One book I found on-line seemed to indicate that the racial tensions really became strained with an influx of 'hill-billies'. Prior to this influx, everyone 'knew' their place ethnically( white, black, hispanic, and various ethnic european groups)and in the job pecking order. The hill-billies were apparently even poorer than the blacks in Detroit but thought they should skip a few rungs on the 'so-called' ladder.
That's all I really know, Prof might have some more insight and perhaps a differnt post would be an interseting place to address this.
Guys, I hate to spoil the "America proved we can all get along" party, but I'm afraid I'm missing something here.
Approximately 119 million people voted in this election. Of those, approximately 88 million were white. Out of that population, 55% cast their votes for McCain (approximately 48 million) while 45% cast their votes for Obama (approximately 40 million).
Now, african-americans made up 13% of the electorate, or approximately 15 million voters. Out of that group, 95% voted for Obama (approximately 14 million) while around 4% voted for McCain (approximately 800,000).
The difference in the election was about 7 million votes.
Seems to me this election wasn't about America proving that it was finally colorblind or beyond race. Conversely, it seems to me this election was driven by identity politics.
Just a point for discussion.
Approximately 119 million people voted in this election. Of those, approximately 88 million were white. Out of that population, 55% cast their votes for McCain (approximately 48 million) while 45% cast their votes for Obama (approximately 40 million).
Now, african-americans made up 13% of the electorate, or approximately 15 million voters. Out of that group, 95% voted for Obama (approximately 14 million) while around 4% voted for McCain (approximately 800,000).
The difference in the election was about 7 million votes.
Seems to me this election wasn't about America proving that it was finally colorblind or beyond race. Conversely, it seems to me this election was driven by identity politics.
Just a point for discussion.
# posted by : 12:49 PM
: 12:49 PM
Anon 11:49
So what is the proper response in this situation? Should black people have spread their votes equally between Obama and McCain to prove that ethnicity wasn't a factor in their votes?
You assume that the only reason that blacks overwhelmingly voted for Obama was that they wanted to see a black president, and that's rather offensive.
It never has crossed your mind that potentially, their reason for voting for Obama was that they agreed with his policies or thought that he'd be a good executive?
So what is the proper response in this situation? Should black people have spread their votes equally between Obama and McCain to prove that ethnicity wasn't a factor in their votes?
You assume that the only reason that blacks overwhelmingly voted for Obama was that they wanted to see a black president, and that's rather offensive.
It never has crossed your mind that potentially, their reason for voting for Obama was that they agreed with his policies or thought that he'd be a good executive?
I remember Detroit burning. I remember going to the grocery store with my mother, and seeing black people in there looking intimidated and worn out and they literally smelled of smoke. They looked terrified, but they had to come to GP to shop because their stores had been burned or looted I guess. I remember my grandparents lived in Dearborn and they stayed at our house an extra night or two because they did not want to drive on I-94 from GP to Dearborn during the riots.
Detroit is a place of polarity... It seems as if all the white people live together away from all the back people. That is how I remember it, but even with that ridiculous Shirley Nagel story I saw black people in Grosse Pointe which was refreshing.
I was VP of the Young Republicans for four years in Michigan and honestly I voted for Obama and proudly displayed an OBAMA sign on my lawn this year. I did it not because I was mad at Bush, or because of the color of his skin, but because I listened to what he had to say and I think he is brilliant.
HE was asked what he would have done had 9/11 happened on his watch. He said that he would have worked harder on Afghanistan and used the unity spirit of the country at that time to get people thinking about alternative fuels. All this time later we maybe could have been at this time well on our way to no dependence on foreign oil produced by terrorist countries. He said he will suspend foreclosures on homes for 90 days when he is in office.
The thing that impressed me the MOST was how REAL he was. When people were attacking Sarah Palin for her pregnant teenage daughter he said that families should be off limits and that he was never going to condemn a pregnant teenager because he was raised by a very young mother who was like 19 when she had him. WHen the reverend Wright BS came up he said that he cannot disown Reverend Wright anymore than he can disown his beloved grandmother who had also said racist things at times, despite the fact that she was HIS grandmother. When he talked about how people would say that he has to be crazy to run for President with a name like Barack Hussein Obama... he even joked about his middle name saying he was named by someone who never thought he might one day want to run for president.
I know that soon the honeymoon will be over, and he will be criticized for everything he does or does not do, and he has an almost impossible mess to clean up but I still very much am so happy for him, and happy that he was able to cut through all the BS and jump over every single hurdle with grace and still inspire so many people. Including me.
Detroit is a place of polarity... It seems as if all the white people live together away from all the back people. That is how I remember it, but even with that ridiculous Shirley Nagel story I saw black people in Grosse Pointe which was refreshing.
I was VP of the Young Republicans for four years in Michigan and honestly I voted for Obama and proudly displayed an OBAMA sign on my lawn this year. I did it not because I was mad at Bush, or because of the color of his skin, but because I listened to what he had to say and I think he is brilliant.
HE was asked what he would have done had 9/11 happened on his watch. He said that he would have worked harder on Afghanistan and used the unity spirit of the country at that time to get people thinking about alternative fuels. All this time later we maybe could have been at this time well on our way to no dependence on foreign oil produced by terrorist countries. He said he will suspend foreclosures on homes for 90 days when he is in office.
The thing that impressed me the MOST was how REAL he was. When people were attacking Sarah Palin for her pregnant teenage daughter he said that families should be off limits and that he was never going to condemn a pregnant teenager because he was raised by a very young mother who was like 19 when she had him. WHen the reverend Wright BS came up he said that he cannot disown Reverend Wright anymore than he can disown his beloved grandmother who had also said racist things at times, despite the fact that she was HIS grandmother. When he talked about how people would say that he has to be crazy to run for President with a name like Barack Hussein Obama... he even joked about his middle name saying he was named by someone who never thought he might one day want to run for president.
I know that soon the honeymoon will be over, and he will be criticized for everything he does or does not do, and he has an almost impossible mess to clean up but I still very much am so happy for him, and happy that he was able to cut through all the BS and jump over every single hurdle with grace and still inspire so many people. Including me.
Anon-- 45% of the white people voting, as you said, voted for Obama. You must be very young or very jaded to think that isn't a huge change from where this country was 45 years ago.
Osler's point wasn't that everyone voted for Obama, but that a black man was elected president in an election that was not primarily about race. That is amazing.
Osler's point wasn't that everyone voted for Obama, but that a black man was elected president in an election that was not primarily about race. That is amazing.
# posted by : 2:20 PM
: 2:20 PM
President Obama's election makes me want to stop every waitress, waiter, clerk, salesperson, etc. I meet, ask them if they are a single mom or dad, and then tell them that their child can be president some day. And now that's the truth, not just what I hope to be true.
# posted by : 2:51 PM
: 2:51 PM
By the way, if you want to know how we can tell that we have not transcended the race issue and how we can tell that this election wasn't truly transformative in any way, as soon as someone brought up the idea that a lot of african-americans voted for Obama (a higher percentage than voted Democrat in either 2000 or 2004) and how that may have something to do with the outcome, they were basically called a racist.
# posted by : 2:55 PM
: 2:55 PM
There are a lot of challenges for the new administration. It was a good time for a change. One of Obama's strengths seems to be seeking wise counsel, and that is needed more now than ever.
# posted by : 3:08 PM
: 3:08 PM
Here are people I would love to see in the new administration, by the way:
Colin Powell
Robert Gates
Rubin & Reich (yes, both again)
Cass Sunstein
Dean Kagan
Chuck Hagel
Colin Powell
Robert Gates
Rubin & Reich (yes, both again)
Cass Sunstein
Dean Kagan
Chuck Hagel
# posted by : 3:37 PM
: 3:37 PM
Tyd-
I think you would be glad to know that GPN is quite integrated today (compared to our time there).
I think you would be glad to know that GPN is quite integrated today (compared to our time there).
So, Obama is the change guy right? New direction? New ideas? Then explain your list to me fat kenny:
Colin Powell - Bush administration. Apparently, he was either an idiot (actually thought there was WMD in Iraq) or gullible enough to be believe idiots. (by the way, I like Powell, but this is what Democrats said about him until he endorsed Obama)
Robert Gates - Bush administration. Actually like this guy, but not exactly an outsider or a person that represents change.
Rubin & Reich - Clinton's tagteam of massively overrated stupidity
Dean Kagan - Clinton administration.
So, by "change" what you hope Obama actually meant was "more of the same."
I think it is hilarious that Obama, this new kind of politician that is going to usher in all this change and get rid of divisive partisan politics, already offered the Chief of Staff position to Rahm Emmanuel, another Clinton administration guy and a well known partisan pitbull.
Yup, those are the politics of hope for you.
Colin Powell - Bush administration. Apparently, he was either an idiot (actually thought there was WMD in Iraq) or gullible enough to be believe idiots. (by the way, I like Powell, but this is what Democrats said about him until he endorsed Obama)
Robert Gates - Bush administration. Actually like this guy, but not exactly an outsider or a person that represents change.
Rubin & Reich - Clinton's tagteam of massively overrated stupidity
Dean Kagan - Clinton administration.
So, by "change" what you hope Obama actually meant was "more of the same."
I think it is hilarious that Obama, this new kind of politician that is going to usher in all this change and get rid of divisive partisan politics, already offered the Chief of Staff position to Rahm Emmanuel, another Clinton administration guy and a well known partisan pitbull.
Yup, those are the politics of hope for you.
# posted by : 3:53 PM
: 3:53 PM
RRL-
What I want is to have a country that is well-governed. These are people who have experience and have proven themselves.
It really seems like you are stuck on the battle above all else, even after the war is over.
Why don't you do something constructive and suggest some people you think should be in the administration? Not to make fun of-- but a serious suggestion of what kind of people, Republican or Democrat, you think should hold these important offices?
Or is sarcasm and cynicism your only trick?
What I want is to have a country that is well-governed. These are people who have experience and have proven themselves.
It really seems like you are stuck on the battle above all else, even after the war is over.
Why don't you do something constructive and suggest some people you think should be in the administration? Not to make fun of-- but a serious suggestion of what kind of people, Republican or Democrat, you think should hold these important offices?
Or is sarcasm and cynicism your only trick?
# posted by : 4:26 PM
: 4:26 PM
I think the high percentage of black folks voting for Obama is a function of the fact that he is black. Lane's idea that it has to do with his positions is just uninformed: though blacks tend to vote overwhelmingly democratic, they poll very high on conservative values.
That is neither here, nor there.
There is NOTHING wrong with the black vote going overwhelmingly for Obama. As a black man - regardless of his policies - he represents what many of us have always believed this country could be. I'm proud of that. And white. And conservative.
I am disappointed in Lane's suggesting anon 11:49 a racist. As a nation, we won't move beyond the things Obama says & proves we can move beyond until (1) folks stop making comments like that, or (2) folks stop paying attention to comments like that.
That is neither here, nor there.
There is NOTHING wrong with the black vote going overwhelmingly for Obama. As a black man - regardless of his policies - he represents what many of us have always believed this country could be. I'm proud of that. And white. And conservative.
I am disappointed in Lane's suggesting anon 11:49 a racist. As a nation, we won't move beyond the things Obama says & proves we can move beyond until (1) folks stop making comments like that, or (2) folks stop paying attention to comments like that.
# posted by : 4:33 PM
: 4:33 PM
I was reading my local paper (The St. Pete Times) on-line. While all of you hopefully enjoyed somewhat seemless voting, my county of Hillsborough is still trying to count over 46,000 early votes. This morning over 6000 absentee ballots had not been scanned and counted. Hopefully when they are counted we will have a NEW Elections supervisor.
If any of you have the opportunity to work a mid-term election or local election. I would recommend taking the day and the training time to participate. It is highly rewarding and gives you a new view of the other side of voting.
If any of you have the opportunity to work a mid-term election or local election. I would recommend taking the day and the training time to participate. It is highly rewarding and gives you a new view of the other side of voting.
I didn't mean to suggest that Anon 11:49 wrote something racist (and I'm fairly sure that whomever Anon 11:49 is, he or she probably isn't an intentional racist). I meant to say it explicitly -- what Anon 11:49 wrote was racist.
The assumption that black voters (or Latino voters, who voted almost 2-1 in most states for Obama) voted only on race is... racist! It assumes that an entire demographic isn't smart enough to pick an candidate on the issues like informed, white voters always do. It assumes a normativity to how white voters vote as the "baseline," and if other races don't vote in line with it, then they're "just motivated by race." It's the same stupid tactic used by conservatives to trash Colin Powell (a conservative that I like and respect and would be happy to see in the administration, because he had the foresight to get off the Bush bus when it was clear it was headed for a cliff) after Powell endorsed Obama: black people care more about supporting other black people than they do the issues, while white people focus only on the issues and don't let such things as "race" influence their decisions. That is offensive and repugnant.
Latinos and blacks (and quite a few Democrat-voting whites, especially in the South/Texas) tend to poll high on "conservative" values (by which I assume you mean traditional social values) but vote Democratic because the scope of reasons for why people vote for a candidate is often larger than their stance on social issues. Hence, a pro-life, anti-homosexual voter might still cast a ballot for Obama for other reasons, like economic policy.
But as you say, maybe stupid, but..., that's neither here nor there. The problem isn't what motivated people to vote, but the suggestion that we ought to be colorblind. Moving beyond racism doesn't mean forgetting it happened. It means stopping it in the present and keeping it from happening again.
I don't want to live in a post-racial society. Ignoring racial differences is as bad as stigmatizing them. By treating everyone the same, we ignore the very real effects that discrimination and oppression have had on various races throughout our history.
The assumption that black voters (or Latino voters, who voted almost 2-1 in most states for Obama) voted only on race is... racist! It assumes that an entire demographic isn't smart enough to pick an candidate on the issues like informed, white voters always do. It assumes a normativity to how white voters vote as the "baseline," and if other races don't vote in line with it, then they're "just motivated by race." It's the same stupid tactic used by conservatives to trash Colin Powell (a conservative that I like and respect and would be happy to see in the administration, because he had the foresight to get off the Bush bus when it was clear it was headed for a cliff) after Powell endorsed Obama: black people care more about supporting other black people than they do the issues, while white people focus only on the issues and don't let such things as "race" influence their decisions. That is offensive and repugnant.
Latinos and blacks (and quite a few Democrat-voting whites, especially in the South/Texas) tend to poll high on "conservative" values (by which I assume you mean traditional social values) but vote Democratic because the scope of reasons for why people vote for a candidate is often larger than their stance on social issues. Hence, a pro-life, anti-homosexual voter might still cast a ballot for Obama for other reasons, like economic policy.
But as you say, maybe stupid, but..., that's neither here nor there. The problem isn't what motivated people to vote, but the suggestion that we ought to be colorblind. Moving beyond racism doesn't mean forgetting it happened. It means stopping it in the present and keeping it from happening again.
I don't want to live in a post-racial society. Ignoring racial differences is as bad as stigmatizing them. By treating everyone the same, we ignore the very real effects that discrimination and oppression have had on various races throughout our history.
Fat Kenny:
You're right. I'm not giving up the fight. I think it matters. I'm not going to say, "well Obama won, so I better get on board." Nope. Instead, I'm going to point out things like the fact that he isn't any different than the progressives that preceeded him, despite his claims to the contrary. I'm going to point out that he picks highly divisive and partisan people to run his Whitehouse, despite his claims that he wants to move beyond the politics of division.
I'm going to point these things out because he ran as the candidate of change. Of post-partisanship (whatever that means). So, when it turns out all of that was just campaign speak and none of it was true, I think that matters.
I don't believe in bipartisanship. My side lost. I want to win next time. I want my ideas to win. So yes, the battle continues.
Here is who I want in the cabinet:
George Will
Peggy Noonan
Thomas Sowell
There you go.
You're right. I'm not giving up the fight. I think it matters. I'm not going to say, "well Obama won, so I better get on board." Nope. Instead, I'm going to point out things like the fact that he isn't any different than the progressives that preceeded him, despite his claims to the contrary. I'm going to point out that he picks highly divisive and partisan people to run his Whitehouse, despite his claims that he wants to move beyond the politics of division.
I'm going to point these things out because he ran as the candidate of change. Of post-partisanship (whatever that means). So, when it turns out all of that was just campaign speak and none of it was true, I think that matters.
I don't believe in bipartisanship. My side lost. I want to win next time. I want my ideas to win. So yes, the battle continues.
Here is who I want in the cabinet:
George Will
Peggy Noonan
Thomas Sowell
There you go.
# posted by : 5:20 PM
: 5:20 PM
I just like how Obama stands up for what he believes in, also inspires people and ALSO he ALSO does not have this fragile ego. He would say: "I need help. I need experts to help me with this situation and Republican or Democrat, I want the best people to help me with this because that is why I am here , to do my best."
I think its been alooooong time since we have had a leader like this. maybe we never have. I have never been more proud to cast a vote than the one I did for Obama. However I do think John McCain is a great man, and a great leader, and would have done okay too maybe He was just totally burdened by leftover Bush stuff AND his pick for VP was just crazy.
I think its been alooooong time since we have had a leader like this. maybe we never have. I have never been more proud to cast a vote than the one I did for Obama. However I do think John McCain is a great man, and a great leader, and would have done okay too maybe He was just totally burdened by leftover Bush stuff AND his pick for VP was just crazy.
Dear Osler's Razor Forum,
Your right, it was a night to remember. She was dressed in a Braniff flight attendant uniform, blonde hair piled higher than 37,000 feet. I was a lawyer in a small Texas community and never thought I'd have the opportunity to write to this esteemed forum about that night approximately 6 miles high to be exact. I was sitting in first class on an upgrade, sipping some Crown, when down the aisle walked this beautiful vision of loveliness who in mile high white boots asked me if I needed a refill. I told her with a wink that I'd be obliged. She said she was out of Crown, except the one she wore on special occassions, and asked if I'd prefer Seven and Seven. I told her I'd hit triple sevens and won the jackpot just by laying eyes on her fine, vertical frame. (Excuse me, this is the wrong forum. My mistake).
Your right, it was a night to remember. She was dressed in a Braniff flight attendant uniform, blonde hair piled higher than 37,000 feet. I was a lawyer in a small Texas community and never thought I'd have the opportunity to write to this esteemed forum about that night approximately 6 miles high to be exact. I was sitting in first class on an upgrade, sipping some Crown, when down the aisle walked this beautiful vision of loveliness who in mile high white boots asked me if I needed a refill. I told her with a wink that I'd be obliged. She said she was out of Crown, except the one she wore on special occassions, and asked if I'd prefer Seven and Seven. I told her I'd hit triple sevens and won the jackpot just by laying eyes on her fine, vertical frame. (Excuse me, this is the wrong forum. My mistake).
# posted by : 7:41 PM
: 7:41 PM
It must be bittersweet for Jesse Jackson also because he ran for president. He wanted to be the first African-American president . . .
I think I agree with Lane's point that not all African-Americans voted for Obama because of his race. It's like saying women would vote for McCain/Palin just because Palin's female (which appeared to be McCain's assumption when he selected her).
I want to see a female president someday--you betcha!--but I'm not voting for just any woman who runs, because she's a woman. That's why I didn't vote for Hilary, even though I respect her a great deal: because to me, she wasn't the right person--or the right woman--for the times.
Of course, there are women who will vote for any woman, and there are African-Americans who will vote for any African-American. But we can't assume that's the case for everybody in those demographics.
I think I agree with Lane's point that not all African-Americans voted for Obama because of his race. It's like saying women would vote for McCain/Palin just because Palin's female (which appeared to be McCain's assumption when he selected her).
I want to see a female president someday--you betcha!--but I'm not voting for just any woman who runs, because she's a woman. That's why I didn't vote for Hilary, even though I respect her a great deal: because to me, she wasn't the right person--or the right woman--for the times.
Of course, there are women who will vote for any woman, and there are African-Americans who will vote for any African-American. But we can't assume that's the case for everybody in those demographics.
# posted by : 8:47 PM
: 8:47 PM
Dear Osler's Razor Forum,
I apologize. Based on the topic, I thought this was a blog that celebrated coming together.
I apologize. Based on the topic, I thought this was a blog that celebrated coming together.
# posted by : 9:19 PM
: 9:19 PM
Fräulein Schweizerin (das tut mir leid; ich weiß nicht, wenn Sie geheiratet werden! Und auch, dass ich sprech kein Schweizdeutsch.) --
That's exactly what I mean. Just like it is sexist to assume that women can't figure out when they want to vote for a female candidate, it's racist to assume that black people can't decide when a candidate supports what they want, and when they don't. Otherwise, Alan Keyes or Jesse Jackson would have been president long ago.
That's exactly what I mean. Just like it is sexist to assume that women can't figure out when they want to vote for a female candidate, it's racist to assume that black people can't decide when a candidate supports what they want, and when they don't. Otherwise, Alan Keyes or Jesse Jackson would have been president long ago.
But, you can't ignore the fact that hundreds of thousands of blacks who never voted before decided to vote in this election. If you think it is because they suddenly realized a candidate had the ideals they value then you are delusional. Race most definitely played a huge part in increasing the number of minority voters who participated in this election.
# posted by : 10:35 PM
: 10:35 PM
Don't worry, Lane; your German's a lot better than mine. That's why I'm not in Schweizerdeutschland anymore.
# posted by : 11:00 PM
: 11:00 PM
Anon 9:35
You are right, we can't ignore the fact that millions of new black and hispanic voters came to the polls to cast a vote this year. I have a neighbor in Tampa (very white) who made a commitment to the Obama campaign close to the beginning. He spent just about every weekend canvassing the neighborhoods of Tampa (mostly inner city) getting Obama's message into the community, listening to the concerns of those he canvassed and visiting these same neighborhoods repeatedly. This same action took place all over the country. For my neighbor it was a continuation of his civil rights activism in the 60's.
One of the communities early concerns about voting for 'one of their own' was it would make him and them a target. They were very seriously concerned that someone would assassinate Obama during the campaign. This senitment was repeated to him frequently.
I cannot begin to think that you I understand the fears many feel when they go to the polls. I grew up in a home where voting is something you do (a civic duty) and it is ingrained after many generations. No one has every questioned my identification at the polls, doubting I am who I say I am. Voting without intimidation is still new in the black community and until they have positive experiences in exercising this right they will need coaxing to take the time to vote.
Needless to say, it took a lot of coaxing and convincing and hopefully their experiences were good and they will have less fear of voting the next time.
You are right, we can't ignore the fact that millions of new black and hispanic voters came to the polls to cast a vote this year. I have a neighbor in Tampa (very white) who made a commitment to the Obama campaign close to the beginning. He spent just about every weekend canvassing the neighborhoods of Tampa (mostly inner city) getting Obama's message into the community, listening to the concerns of those he canvassed and visiting these same neighborhoods repeatedly. This same action took place all over the country. For my neighbor it was a continuation of his civil rights activism in the 60's.
One of the communities early concerns about voting for 'one of their own' was it would make him and them a target. They were very seriously concerned that someone would assassinate Obama during the campaign. This senitment was repeated to him frequently.
I cannot begin to think that you I understand the fears many feel when they go to the polls. I grew up in a home where voting is something you do (a civic duty) and it is ingrained after many generations. No one has every questioned my identification at the polls, doubting I am who I say I am. Voting without intimidation is still new in the black community and until they have positive experiences in exercising this right they will need coaxing to take the time to vote.
Needless to say, it took a lot of coaxing and convincing and hopefully their experiences were good and they will have less fear of voting the next time.
I had trouble voting this year.... I liked McCain... until he chose Palin. It was hard to find people who would talk about the candidates without saying the other candidate was scary or worse. In the end, I was proud to vote for McCain, because he is such a strong patriot and fighter. But, I'm kind of glad he didn't win... because the Obama victory is truly historic.
While I don't agree with all of his policies, I am excited about Obama. I grew to admire him in the debates and his impressive campaign. Just tonight I noticed Obama campaign signs in Spanish... a first! He is very smart and passionate and has really energized many Americans - as is evident in the high voter turnout. It will be a pleasure to watch him in action. I hope that we can remember this wonderful historic moment in the tough years ahead as we try to pull the country out of the hole we are now in.
I appreciated McCain's concession speech - he is such a gentleman. But I was moved to tears during Obama's victory speech... While his race made the election historic, the man - not his race - was the reason for the victory - and it is well-deserved. Because of his race, he must take the higher road to keep the country from focusing on race and letting it divide us.
I hope Obama's victory will help us to overcome our differences and celebrate our common humanity to achieve great things!
While I don't agree with all of his policies, I am excited about Obama. I grew to admire him in the debates and his impressive campaign. Just tonight I noticed Obama campaign signs in Spanish... a first! He is very smart and passionate and has really energized many Americans - as is evident in the high voter turnout. It will be a pleasure to watch him in action. I hope that we can remember this wonderful historic moment in the tough years ahead as we try to pull the country out of the hole we are now in.
I appreciated McCain's concession speech - he is such a gentleman. But I was moved to tears during Obama's victory speech... While his race made the election historic, the man - not his race - was the reason for the victory - and it is well-deserved. Because of his race, he must take the higher road to keep the country from focusing on race and letting it divide us.
I hope Obama's victory will help us to overcome our differences and celebrate our common humanity to achieve great things!
# posted by : 11:06 PM
: 11:06 PM
Anon, lots of people in a lot of places who have never voted before have voted in this election. Should young people be accused of playing the age card because they voted for a younger candidate?
Did President-Elect Obama's race motivate people to become more involved? I certainly hope it did. I hope black youth look at this as proof that they can overcome the oppression of society, that they are not permanently disenfranchised by the system. I hope that did motivate them to go out and vote for a candidate that they believed in as a person.
Don't confuse something that motivated someone to act on their beliefs with the beliefs in themselves. I don't think a conservative black person would vote for Obama simply because Obama is black (Thomas Sowell likely didn't, for instance). So why should we be surprised if non-conservative black people turn out in record numbers to vote for a candidate that represents their long-delayed political enfranchisement? Why should we attempt to cheapen Obama's victory by saying that he only made it because people who otherwise would have not voted or voted for the other guy, voted for him instead based on race? That's a racist assertion.
I don't mean to say that people that make it are racist, though. I think if Hillary Clinton were the president-elect right now, people would be saying that women voted for her just because she was a woman. On the other side, lots of people might be saying that veterans voted for McCain just because McCain is a veteran. While the latter may be less repugnant than sexism or racism, it's still a wrong statement to make. People vote based on the issues; don't cheapen anyone's victory by attempting to put a superficial gloss on it.
Did President-Elect Obama's race motivate people to become more involved? I certainly hope it did. I hope black youth look at this as proof that they can overcome the oppression of society, that they are not permanently disenfranchised by the system. I hope that did motivate them to go out and vote for a candidate that they believed in as a person.
Don't confuse something that motivated someone to act on their beliefs with the beliefs in themselves. I don't think a conservative black person would vote for Obama simply because Obama is black (Thomas Sowell likely didn't, for instance). So why should we be surprised if non-conservative black people turn out in record numbers to vote for a candidate that represents their long-delayed political enfranchisement? Why should we attempt to cheapen Obama's victory by saying that he only made it because people who otherwise would have not voted or voted for the other guy, voted for him instead based on race? That's a racist assertion.
I don't mean to say that people that make it are racist, though. I think if Hillary Clinton were the president-elect right now, people would be saying that women voted for her just because she was a woman. On the other side, lots of people might be saying that veterans voted for McCain just because McCain is a veteran. While the latter may be less repugnant than sexism or racism, it's still a wrong statement to make. People vote based on the issues; don't cheapen anyone's victory by attempting to put a superficial gloss on it.
And yes, the last Anonymous: maybe race did play a part in getting people interested in voting in this election. But if Obama had been a black Republican instead of a black Democrat, do you think those 95% would've voted for a black candidate then? Maybe some would have, just like a small number of Hilary supporters switched to McCain/Palin because of Palin. But not all of them.
The substance of what the candidate believes does make a difference.
The substance of what the candidate believes does make a difference.
# posted by : 11:12 PM
: 11:12 PM
Swissgirl --
I just remember one of my German professors telling me what a huge faux pas it would be to speak the Bavarian German I learned in school to a Swiss national, so I apologized. I was never able to get the Swiss-German pronunciation things down. Same for Swaebisch.
Texas German, on the other hand, I can do. But that makes me sound like the back-country hick of the German speaking world. Then again, my Texan accent does the same for me when I speak English... hmm...
I just remember one of my German professors telling me what a huge faux pas it would be to speak the Bavarian German I learned in school to a Swiss national, so I apologized. I was never able to get the Swiss-German pronunciation things down. Same for Swaebisch.
Texas German, on the other hand, I can do. But that makes me sound like the back-country hick of the German speaking world. Then again, my Texan accent does the same for me when I speak English... hmm...
Lane,
I think you are making the opposite assumptions that the Anon's have been making in your posts. You assume that the huge percentages and numbers were not driven by race and assail people when they make the opposite argument. While I have personally witnessed many people making informed decisions about this race, I have also clearly seen many make the decision purely based on race, for both candidates. Many more than I'd like on either side.
I don't think that anyone on here is saying that the race of the man played the ONLY role in the election, but surely you are not denying that it had a significant impact?
Calling the assumption that many voted solely on race (which is, I believe, indisputable) as "racist" definitely makes it sound negative. If you mean, "dealing only with race" or "race based" then you are correct in your terms.
But if you honestly believe that there aren't many conservative blacks or blacks that generally opposed Obama's policys whom still voted for him based on his race then you are really naive. Of course the same could be said for many white voters who voted for McCain because he is white.
I guess I don't see why people get so offended over it. I don't feel upset that many blacks voted him into the white house based on race alone, as it accomplishes much for the people who share the same skin tone simply by having a black man become president.
Because a black man has become president, the "race only" effect will diminish over time and people of both races will, more than likely, compare candidates on substance, but there had to be a first...at least that's the hop
I think you are making the opposite assumptions that the Anon's have been making in your posts. You assume that the huge percentages and numbers were not driven by race and assail people when they make the opposite argument. While I have personally witnessed many people making informed decisions about this race, I have also clearly seen many make the decision purely based on race, for both candidates. Many more than I'd like on either side.
I don't think that anyone on here is saying that the race of the man played the ONLY role in the election, but surely you are not denying that it had a significant impact?
Calling the assumption that many voted solely on race (which is, I believe, indisputable) as "racist" definitely makes it sound negative. If you mean, "dealing only with race" or "race based" then you are correct in your terms.
But if you honestly believe that there aren't many conservative blacks or blacks that generally opposed Obama's policys whom still voted for him based on his race then you are really naive. Of course the same could be said for many white voters who voted for McCain because he is white.
I guess I don't see why people get so offended over it. I don't feel upset that many blacks voted him into the white house based on race alone, as it accomplishes much for the people who share the same skin tone simply by having a black man become president.
Because a black man has become president, the "race only" effect will diminish over time and people of both races will, more than likely, compare candidates on substance, but there had to be a first...at least that's the hop
# posted by : 12:07 AM
: 12:07 AM
Dallas_ADA,
Look at me, a few months out of school and already starting to inarticulately express myself!
You're right, my comments come off the wrong way. By "racist," I mean the standard definition of privilege+power. That is, I see the attempt to say that Obama "only" won because of race as a denigration of him as a candidate and the intelligence of the electorate that chose him.
Sure, race motivated a lot of people to vote. I'm personally thrilled to see a black candidate for President win. My fiancee, whose ancestry is part African, was in tears all Tuesday night and woke up on Wednesday feeling like she was living in a new world. Her desire to see someone that looks more like her in the office energized her during this election season for sure...
But I don't think she'd have supported an anti-choice, anti-gay, pro-free-market black or Latino candidate. In fact, I know she wouldn't, because her support for Obama came first from his policy positions and ideology. The energy with which she participated in this election, however, was due in part to his race.
The contrapositive of that, however, is that I also don't think that pro-life, pro-free-market, etc. social conservatives who are also black decided to abandon those positions and vote along racial lines. I may be wrong, but logically, if I believe the first statement, the second one is entailed.
So I don't mean the assertion that I find the argument to be "racist" to connote that I think the person making it is a bigot or prejudiced. I just see it as an example of the privileged trying to cheapen the victory of a candidate that (symbolically) represents the oppressed. I apologize if I offended anyone.
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Look at me, a few months out of school and already starting to inarticulately express myself!
You're right, my comments come off the wrong way. By "racist," I mean the standard definition of privilege+power. That is, I see the attempt to say that Obama "only" won because of race as a denigration of him as a candidate and the intelligence of the electorate that chose him.
Sure, race motivated a lot of people to vote. I'm personally thrilled to see a black candidate for President win. My fiancee, whose ancestry is part African, was in tears all Tuesday night and woke up on Wednesday feeling like she was living in a new world. Her desire to see someone that looks more like her in the office energized her during this election season for sure...
But I don't think she'd have supported an anti-choice, anti-gay, pro-free-market black or Latino candidate. In fact, I know she wouldn't, because her support for Obama came first from his policy positions and ideology. The energy with which she participated in this election, however, was due in part to his race.
The contrapositive of that, however, is that I also don't think that pro-life, pro-free-market, etc. social conservatives who are also black decided to abandon those positions and vote along racial lines. I may be wrong, but logically, if I believe the first statement, the second one is entailed.
So I don't mean the assertion that I find the argument to be "racist" to connote that I think the person making it is a bigot or prejudiced. I just see it as an example of the privileged trying to cheapen the victory of a candidate that (symbolically) represents the oppressed. I apologize if I offended anyone.
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