Wednesday, November 14, 2007
UH, UT, South Texas react to Baylor's Success on the Bar Exam
An article now available on-line in the Texas Lawyer magazine describes Baylor grads' success on the bar exam from several different angles. Here is a sample of the meatiest quotes:
Raymond Nimmer, Interim Dean at U of H: "There is a tension between those people who want the law schools of the country to focus on practice skills to train students to be good lawyers and those people who want law students to be good analytically and get them to understand the policies, philosophy and the underlying direction of the law." Nimmer adds that a really good law school should teach elements of both — analytical skills and practice skills — and that Baylor appears to emphasize the latter.
James Alfini, Dean at South Texas: "Part of the genius of what Baylor is doing is requiring the students' work ethic to be at an all-time high in their third year. There is no let up, no coasting — that momentum takes them into the bar review period, and it pays off."
Lawrence Sager, Dean of UT: "For us there is a serious question of whether we can do better with that 10 percent of our students who are having trouble passing the bar," he says. "I would like to be satisfied that every student is given every ounce of support so they can prosper in their chosen profession." But Sager adds that the overall "health of a graduating lawyer" at UT is excellent. "More law firms are reaching deeper and deeper into our graduating class in their recruiting. Our federal court of appeals court clerks went from seven to 21 in the last two years — that puts us very high in the nation's law schools."
Comments:
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Great article, and one that again makes me proud to be a Baylor grad. I just wish everyone understood how we were "raised" by Uncles Dawson, Underwood, Powell, Wren, etc.
# posted by 
: 4:53 PM
: 4:53 PM
I love the UofH guys quote...I guess his mock trial students forgot all those analytical skills when we were kicking their butt...but I'm sure all that high level thinking paid off at some point.
# posted by : 5:37 PM
: 5:37 PM 
Hahaha I love that the UT quote mentioned the "overall health" of a graduating senior from their law school.. he must have been talking to a PC student.
# posted by : 7:45 PM
: 7:45 PM
I think that fellow from U of H should meet "Uncle Powell" and run that quote about Baylor by him. Nimmer should really take some time to come see what a typical Baylor student's day (much less a day in PC) is like and see if he still attributes our bar pass rates to black letter teaching.
Don't shortchange the Baylor Law work ethic, punks! Our professors and students work their butts off, and that's WITH a PC prof's boot lodged in there too!
Don't shortchange the Baylor Law work ethic, punks! Our professors and students work their butts off, and that's WITH a PC prof's boot lodged in there too!
My favorite quote was the former dean of U of H: "The bigger the law school, the more variance you will get in the bar passage rate." Maybe I'm misunderstanding her, but I think she's got it backward.
I think another part of Baylor's success stems from the fact that only 2 Baylor students failed. Nobody wants to be those two. You can't hide in a sea of 30 people who failed and hope for anonymity, like at the bigger schools.
I think another part of Baylor's success stems from the fact that only 2 Baylor students failed. Nobody wants to be those two. You can't hide in a sea of 30 people who failed and hope for anonymity, like at the bigger schools.
Hmm...I'm doubting it's an increased fear of shame that keeps Baylor's pass rate so high.
But I do respect an institution's placing value on the mental health of its graduates. From my observation, Baylor could have done more in this area when I was there.
I'm very grateful for Baylor's old-school rigor (in retrospect).
Hopefully I'll actually read the article later. Laziness has crept back in since graduating.
But I do respect an institution's placing value on the mental health of its graduates. From my observation, Baylor could have done more in this area when I was there.
I'm very grateful for Baylor's old-school rigor (in retrospect).
Hopefully I'll actually read the article later. Laziness has crept back in since graduating.
# posted by : 11:15 PM
: 11:15 PM
I'm glad you caught that, Jeremy, because that little wrinkle occurred to me while I was reading the article but I dared not trust my not-so-mad math skillz to be right sans corroboration.
First, my thanks goes out to Dean Toben or the writer at the Texas Lawyer who conceived of the idea to write this article.
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Second, I'm interested in your reaction to this passage:
"The ethos at Baylor is that the professors are teachers first and scholars second," says former UH law dean Nancy Rapoport."
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Third, well, just thank you for having this blog. As a current Baylor 3L, I really appreciate the opportunity to read and consider your thoughts on Baylor, sentencing, God, and life.
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Second, I'm interested in your reaction to this passage:
"The ethos at Baylor is that the professors are teachers first and scholars second," says former UH law dean Nancy Rapoport."
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Third, well, just thank you for having this blog. As a current Baylor 3L, I really appreciate the opportunity to read and consider your thoughts on Baylor, sentencing, God, and life.
# posted by : 8:19 AM
: 8:19 AM
Anon. 7:19: I think Nancy Rapoport (who I know to be both a great teacher and a great scholar) isn't speaking out of disrespect in saying that-- it is pretty much true. Our school is structured that way. As the article notes, Baylor's official web site says the same thing.
Aren't analytical skills essential to practice skills? I'm sure you can have analytical skills and not practice skills, but I don't know about the other way around (unless you're a paralegal...)
# posted by : 2:36 PM
: 2:36 PM
Anon-- Of course analysis is a practical skill, provided it is something practical you are analyzing. We do a lot of that here.
"For Foster, the difference between Baylor law graduates and others can be reduced to a simple metaphor. 'Many law schools will teach their students what a hammer is, but then rely on the law firms to provide them the opportunity to use that hammer. When Baylor law students arrive at a law firm, they already know how to use that hammer.'"
That's the money quote in my book. Heh, who's the "Texas Hammer" now?
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That's the money quote in my book. Heh, who's the "Texas Hammer" now?
# posted by : 8:09 PM
: 8:09 PM << Home
