Wednesday, June 06, 2007
A statement with which I strongly disagree
A few years ago, an academic and I were in conversation about a faith issue. At one point, I said something which apparently conflicted with the teachings of Augustine (it's true-- I disagree with Augustine on many things). The academic brought this to my attention and asked if I had read a certain work by Augustine, and I admitted that I hadn't. At this point, he said "I don't see how you can consider yourself a true Christian if you don't know Augustine."
There are few statements I disagree with more, and it cuts to the heart of my problem with much of modern academic theology. It assumes that knowledge of certain philosophers who lived after Christ is necessary to understand Christ, and this cuts most of us out of the body of "serious" Christians.
You know what? If I get lost in West Texas and stumble into a little wayside church where no one has an education past high school, and those people are gathered together to worship, I am willing to accept that they know Christ as well as I do, and as well as that harumphing academic. As a young man I used deliver flowers to an African-American church on the East Side of Detroit, and sometimes stayed for the service. I never heard them mention knowing Augustine, but they sure as heck knew Christ.
Jesus himself did not preach to the Pharisees and scribes, but to the masses on a hillside, few if any of whom knew how to read. I know that illiterate people today can receive that same message now, in full understanding and belief. Their open hearts are equal to my own, and not only the spirit of God but the knowledge of Christ is as fully within them as it is within me or anyone else.
I have nothing against reading Augustine. I'm glad that there are theologians and experts, and I enjoy talking to them and have learned a great deal from them. What I don't accept is that somehow their powers of analysis (rather than the powers of love, compassion, or dedication) somehow place them closer to God.
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why you gotta hate on West Texas? There are few hicks out there that went to skool!!
# posted by 
: 11:36 AM
: 11:36 AM
I agree, and sometimes I think the powers of analysis and reason actually push us farther away from Jesus. When we begin teaching with our own learning and deny the power of the Holy Spirit, we place ourselves and our knowledge above God Himself. (Consider 1 Corinthians 2:1-7, 10-13; Ephesians 4:17-19; 2 Nephi 28:4-5; Jacob 4:8; Alma 35:3).
Certainly, God doesn't want us to be ignorant, but if our learning leads us to disregard His counsels, it would have been better for us to not be learned. There is no required reading list to enter heaven, and unless we humble ourselves and recognize our learning is foolishness compared to God's, we cannot be saved! (2 Nephi 9:28-29, 42-43).
Besides, the times I feel closet to Jesus are the times I emulate Him. Study is important, but unless we implement what we study into our lives to live like Jesus lived, love as He loved, and serve as He served, then our study is worthless.
Some of the most faithful, wonderful Christians I have met are illiterate Ecuadorians who live according to the words of their Savior as they receive them through others.
Sorry, I usually reserve my sermonizing for my own blog.
Certainly, God doesn't want us to be ignorant, but if our learning leads us to disregard His counsels, it would have been better for us to not be learned. There is no required reading list to enter heaven, and unless we humble ourselves and recognize our learning is foolishness compared to God's, we cannot be saved! (2 Nephi 9:28-29, 42-43).
Besides, the times I feel closet to Jesus are the times I emulate Him. Study is important, but unless we implement what we study into our lives to live like Jesus lived, love as He loved, and serve as He served, then our study is worthless.
Some of the most faithful, wonderful Christians I have met are illiterate Ecuadorians who live according to the words of their Savior as they receive them through others.
Sorry, I usually reserve my sermonizing for my own blog.
I couldn't agree more. People come to know Christ by praying to him, loving others, and striving to follow his principles. The Pharisees and Sadducess fell astray because they tried to based their beliefs and faith on philosophy and academic study of scripture. Fisherman became Christ's greatest disciples because they dropped their nets and followed the Savior, spending their entire lives in the service of others.
Don't apologize, Craig, I started it. I think what is lost too often among "experts" is one of the essential aspects of the faith, which is humility. I know that many of my own failings relate to the failure to embody that virtue.
Jesus taught with parables. Parables reach people where they are, and at a level that made sense to them. Parables make sense to me.
I've read some of that Augstine stuff and it really doesn't make that much sense to me.
So how "right" or "true" could soemthing be if it is more confusing than the thing it is trying to explain?
I've read some of that Augstine stuff and it really doesn't make that much sense to me.
So how "right" or "true" could soemthing be if it is more confusing than the thing it is trying to explain?
He probably meant the city in Florida. If you haven't been there, you're doomed for all eternity. Besides, everyone knows it's Thomas Aquinas you have to know in order to be Saved.
# posted by : 12:45 PM
: 12:45 PM
I agree, but in the academic's defense I will say this... there are many Christians who, once saved, are satisfied to simply enjoy the "milk" of our faith and never mature as Christians. Moving on to the "solid food" of faith is what God intends for all of us. Salvation is great, but to serve Christ and have a deeper and more fulfilling experience, more is required. (Anyone who reads the bible feels the blessing of this study).
I do not believe any of us are "better" Christians by our deeds and we should never forget the "milk", the roots of Christ's teachings, but I do believe that Jesus did not intend that we should be satisfied with only milk. Certainly there are those without opportunity for study. Those who cannot read, or those who cannot afford books. But perhaps that is what we are here for, to reach out and help make this knowledge accessible.
Finally (talk about sermons) I would not place the intellectual and/or inspired teachings of Saint Augustine or CS Lewis or whomever above the word of God...that is good old Texas common sense, and didn't come from no book learning.
"Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so."
Hebrews 6:1
I do not believe any of us are "better" Christians by our deeds and we should never forget the "milk", the roots of Christ's teachings, but I do believe that Jesus did not intend that we should be satisfied with only milk. Certainly there are those without opportunity for study. Those who cannot read, or those who cannot afford books. But perhaps that is what we are here for, to reach out and help make this knowledge accessible.
Finally (talk about sermons) I would not place the intellectual and/or inspired teachings of Saint Augustine or CS Lewis or whomever above the word of God...that is good old Texas common sense, and didn't come from no book learning.
"Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so."
Hebrews 6:1
Ginger made an excellent point, and
I want to add that we shouldn't confuse gristle with the Meat of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Nor should we overdose on gravy.
Within my own Church, there are those who get so concerned, figuratively, with whether the gates of Heaven swing or slide, that they don't spend time learning and doing things that will get them into them. And I've seen how concerned others are with the exact time when Christ will return and the identity of the Anti-Christ.
And the worst part of all this is they reason themselves into believing things that aren't correct (the gristle).
Then there are the gravy topics such as the history and cultures of scriptural civilizations, dates, times, geography, or the poetic tools Isaiah used when he wrote. These give excellent context and detail which liven the flavor of the Gospel. But too much will clog the arteries and keep nourishing doctrines from reaching the heart!
Personally, as I study, the depth yet simple beauty of the doctrines of the Creation, the Fall of Man, the Redemption and the Resurrection made possible through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, Faith in Jesus Christ, Repentance, Baptism, the Gift of the Holy Ghost consistently overwhelm me. And the more I learn about them, the more I realize there is to learn.
For me, these topics are the Meat of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I want to add that we shouldn't confuse gristle with the Meat of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Nor should we overdose on gravy.
Within my own Church, there are those who get so concerned, figuratively, with whether the gates of Heaven swing or slide, that they don't spend time learning and doing things that will get them into them. And I've seen how concerned others are with the exact time when Christ will return and the identity of the Anti-Christ.
And the worst part of all this is they reason themselves into believing things that aren't correct (the gristle).
Then there are the gravy topics such as the history and cultures of scriptural civilizations, dates, times, geography, or the poetic tools Isaiah used when he wrote. These give excellent context and detail which liven the flavor of the Gospel. But too much will clog the arteries and keep nourishing doctrines from reaching the heart!
Personally, as I study, the depth yet simple beauty of the doctrines of the Creation, the Fall of Man, the Redemption and the Resurrection made possible through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, Faith in Jesus Christ, Repentance, Baptism, the Gift of the Holy Ghost consistently overwhelm me. And the more I learn about them, the more I realize there is to learn.
For me, these topics are the Meat of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
And one more thing, I think C.S. Lewis' works are well-balanced Gospel discussions. If you were wondering!
I agree that sometimes Christianity can be forgotten amongst logic- this is one criticism I have heard of Scholasticism in general. However, religious thinkers can guide us in understanding difficult concepts- so long as we do not fall astray from the faith. It is, like everything else, a golden mean- One should love God with all his soul, yet, if one can via learning spread the Word, then such a tool should not be rejected out of hand. However, there are many to whom the works of Augustine, Chrysostom, Aquinas, etc., are inaccessable- it is pure folloy to suggest that devout believers will not be saved, merely because they are unacquinted with high theology- there is often more piety in the heart of a simple peasant than in the soul of a rational academic, as the peasant accepts the magesty of the Lord and his creation with awe and wonderment, whilst the scholar seeks to probe and test everything, as if faith alone is not sufficient for him to believe something.
# posted by : 5:23 PM
: 5:23 PM
I do not know Jesus as a God, just as really I guess a character in literature. I am Unitarian and I do not want to get into all of that again.... I do believe in many of the principles that are sort of taught in the bible and in religion. I will never reach the gravy or the meat or the gristle.... I will probably be forever waiting for a table.... but I do know that at the end of almost every day I can look myslef in the mirror and look into my soul and know that I tried my hardest to make my life and the world and the lives of others a better place if I could, despite whatever hardships I am facing personally. I am also never ever NOT THANKFUL for my life and all of the things I do have. I have so much even at the times when it my life seems empty it is full of love and laughter and a joyful child and friends and I am always grateful for that.
But that is partly because I have the Razor where I can write endlessly about the minutia of my everyday life.... But I am okay with that unless maybe it is a sin to bore people to death.
But that is partly because I have the Razor where I can write endlessly about the minutia of my everyday life.... But I am okay with that unless maybe it is a sin to bore people to death.
# posted by : 10:16 PM
: 10:16 PM
Just as the pharisees in Jesus day, Academics have something to lose.
The Jews, expecting a Messiah surely thought God would come as a warlord to overthrow the oppressors. When he came in the form of Jesus this was not particularly well received, or believable, nor was Jesus given immediate and widespread credence as the Son of God. He was flesh and blood; an ordinary man. His ministry built slowly and was punctuated with miracles that established only credibility, not invincibility. How utterly disappointing it was for some to see God in the flesh. There was no burning bush, no columns of dust, no pillars of fire, and no cacophonous trumpets knocking down the walls. The pharisees had set the bar high.
This was God’s great deceit. Jesus was an affable and compelling man. He was patient and kind. He liked kids. He engaged the Pharisees with snappy repartee. He spoke well and people came from miles around to hear what he had to say. He resisted Satan in the desert. He told us to turn the other cheek. He seldom lost his temper.
Time and time again Jesus, through parable and deed, tried to demonstrate that the letter of the law was secondary to God’s intended spirit of the law. More than one way to skin a cat (so to speak).
Jesus says of the Pharisees in Mark 7: 7 - 8
They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'[b] 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."
If you are a teacher of traditions, you can easily have more invested in your standing among people than in a righteous life.
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The Jews, expecting a Messiah surely thought God would come as a warlord to overthrow the oppressors. When he came in the form of Jesus this was not particularly well received, or believable, nor was Jesus given immediate and widespread credence as the Son of God. He was flesh and blood; an ordinary man. His ministry built slowly and was punctuated with miracles that established only credibility, not invincibility. How utterly disappointing it was for some to see God in the flesh. There was no burning bush, no columns of dust, no pillars of fire, and no cacophonous trumpets knocking down the walls. The pharisees had set the bar high.
This was God’s great deceit. Jesus was an affable and compelling man. He was patient and kind. He liked kids. He engaged the Pharisees with snappy repartee. He spoke well and people came from miles around to hear what he had to say. He resisted Satan in the desert. He told us to turn the other cheek. He seldom lost his temper.
Time and time again Jesus, through parable and deed, tried to demonstrate that the letter of the law was secondary to God’s intended spirit of the law. More than one way to skin a cat (so to speak).
Jesus says of the Pharisees in Mark 7: 7 - 8
They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'[b] 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."
If you are a teacher of traditions, you can easily have more invested in your standing among people than in a righteous life.
# posted by : 11:29 AM
: 11:29 AM << Home
