Osler's Razor

I am one of the profs who usually gets his grades in right about at the deadline-- that is, six weeks into the next quarter. In doing that, I probably don't take into consideration enough what that delay means to students. I should probably try to tighten up that time period.
 

My only real problem this quarter is that I wish some of our professors (not you) would be realistic and respectful about how much material they are going to get through. I don't have a problem with a realistic range because it all depends on how quickly or slow the class goes (which sometimes is our fault as students with a lack of preparation or if there are a lot of questions). But sometimes I suspect that assigning material that purportedly must all be finished the next day that actually is not finished in class for three days hence is just an attempt to toy with us, which is a demoralizing feeling. It may truly just be a guess gone wrong, but when the estimate is that much off, it just seems more like a mind game, which breeds resentment; it's pretty darn irritating to stay up until 5 working on cases only to find out that for the fourth Friday in a row, you only get to a third of them. There is a distinct respect that students give to professors who keep their word and reasonably plan out the quarter; for example, Trail always had my respect for that. Your own adjustment of the PR syllabus was another prime example that gave you a lot of "street cred" among the PCers who had not previously had you (and yeah, I just used the term "street cred" - we roll hard).
 

From someone who has graduated:

Problem: Leeway was not given to Bar takers who were trying to schedule their finals earlier to give them more uninterrupted time to prepare for the Bar exam. The administration made a blanket restriction to rescheduling exams, explained that, if they did it for one class, they'd have to do it for all classes, and said "this kind of thing happens in the real world."

Solution: Give leeway to Bar-exam takers when they and their professors are willing to reschedule a final exam. Empty rooms are available. Granted, it's tough to juggle all these schedules, but that's why we pay and trust in the administration to do what is in our best interests (instead of blaming the harshness of the real world). So what if every class has Bar takers who want to reschedule. Willing professor + empty rooms + increasing performance on the Bar = Students who actually feel Baylor Law is doing something for them.
 

Here's one--

Baylor Law advertises wi-fi access everywhere and anywhere, everytime and anytime at the school. But it doesn't work everywhere and at certain times.

Until I see tech support walking around the school with laptops, testing EVERY INCH of the school to see that wi-fi internet access works, then I'm thinking that Baylor Law brochures are committing false advertising.

How about Baylor allots some money and actually fixes this problem.
 

I dunno if we're supposed to respond to comments:

While I can't say for sure, I have a (hopeful) feeling that the apprehension that we feal re: grades and the time it takes decreases as time passes. Of course, if the professor honestly uses the time to carefully grade the tests, then I would much rather have delay than a professor who rushes grading.

I do have a separate comment re: BLS. Primarily, I'm scared out of my wits about practice out. Yes, it's 3 years away...but I don't know if the faculty realizes how much us 1L's hear about practice court. At least once a day, I hear or overhear a comment about the horribleness that is practice court. We are constantly bombarded with comments like "It really is as bad as everyone says it is," or "Transfer now, while you can," or the same. To be fair, once every blue moon, I hear someone say they think it might be worth it in the end. Generally, from the comments, I get the impression that practice court tries to create artificial pressure on students and then forces them to perform under that pressure.

I have no desire to transfer but I can't blame people who want to given such the comments. And I can't say the thought hasn't crossed my mind either. I think my worst fear is that the classes we take now are not in any way representative of practice court (let me expressly disclaim any idea that I am advocating they be representative of practice court!). I think a lot of the fear arises from the uncertainty of it all.

I don't know if I've really articulated a problem and, even if I have, I don't know what sorta solution there could ever be. Other than that, I can't say I have any problems with Baylor (well maybe Prof. Contracts confusing me all the time...but that's probably more my problem than anything Prof. Contracts is doing. Oh, that and I'm going to do horribly on all my finals. But again -- nothing anyone else can do about that.).
 

Taco--

(It's hard for me to type that without adding "Bueno!")

I didn't know that there was that big a fear factor among the first years re PC, but I have limited contact with the first year students.
 

I've mentioned this before, but I think Baylor should consider adding a B+ and maybe an A+. It is infuriating that we can get a B- which is only worth 2.5, but we can't get a B+. Nothing wreaks havoc on our collective GPA's more, and its somewhat artificial.

I'd like to see values of
A 4.0
A- 3.75
B+ 3.25
B 3.0
B- 2.75

No change in how we are actually graded, but not such a brutal penalty for a B- without the reward of a B+

(BTW -- I've moved the blog, please update your links. Thanks!)
 

I agree with the grade stuff! but suggest:
A 4.0
A- 3.67
B+ 3.33
B 3.0
B- 2.67
C+ 2.33
C 2.

Actually, if it were up to me, we could just stop with C being the lowest, but if you must continue... keep going.

Yes... 1Q's & 2Q's are scared of PC.

6-8 weeks to grade exams?
Is that even really necessary?
I also see NO reason why profs should ever turn in grades late. Students can fail classes for being late 5 minutes late on a
memo.

Food/drinks? Does it have to be restricted to the student lounge?
 

I'd like to see the library open 24 hours during the week. Lawyers certainly don't quit at midnight or 10pm and as students the library is our only place to use certain resources.
 

Baylor Law needs to commit a more student friendly environment. The benefits in attending this law school are simply not worth the financial and emotional turmoil of spending 3 years here.

I enjoy working hard at Baylor Law. I have not taken PC yet, but I look forward to the challenge. As my dad always told me, "Short term pain; long term gain." I also enjoy the satisfaction I get when I speak with friends of mine from other law schools. The fact of the matter is we learn more in the same amount of time than the law students at other schools.

However, I do not enjoy the administration and faculty thumbing their respective noses at our hard work. REALIZE THIS FACULTY/ADMINISTRATION: The awful grading curve and ridiculous point system only breeds contempt with your students and makes us less marketable to employers. How can it be in the school's best interest for its students to be less appealing to employers? Students with better jobs = good exposure for school = higher rankings = better students and faculty = more money for school...and so on and so forth. Why not keep the same expectations for Baylor Law students, but instead of disrespecting our work product, return the respect we give to you on a daily basis with a more rational grading system.

In addition, our career service center is inferior in comparison with those at UT, SMU and UH. Granted these school are in larger markets, but at Baylor students who are not in the top 15% and on Law Review are essentially left to fend for themselves in searching for jobs and clerkships. OCS is great for those 10-15 students at the very top of the class, but the other 85% is left on an island. We need a career service center that is committed to finding jobs for ALL of the students of this law school. I believe the motto of this school is "The Best Belong At Baylor". This is not a problem at the aforementioned schools.

Essentially, the students at this law school just want to feel respected by the members of the faculty and administration. We want the faculty and adminstration to hold us to the highest expectations, but we expect the same standard in return.
 

First,

Anonymous is completely wrong about the CSO. I have plenty of friends outside of the top 15% with multiple callbacks and job opportunities. The fact of the matter is, you attend a second tier school (that hurts to admit). If your grades didn't turn out how you wanted them to its going to be tough to get a job unless the CSO ladies themselves hire you. If you are looking to allocate blame, you might take responsibility for your own shortcommings.

Second,

Baylor, by design, is incredibly difficult and hard on its students. I have no problem with this when it is designed and for a purpose. However, because of this aggressively adversarial culture, students are going to be very sensitive to non-purposeful actions by the admin/faculty that are short on respect. For example (I know this is stupid and petty, but it illustrates my point)... Tuesday Dr. Pepper floats - Why does this start five minutes before a class lets out? Why is the line full of staff before students? Why is nothing left for students who come 10 minutes after the event begins? Could staff maybe wait until students have had a chance? Could BLS perhaps raise tuition so it could afford a bit more Dr. Pepper?

Again, I know Dr. Pepper is a stupid topic to raise, but grades, IT, and exam grading have already been raised.

My point: if BLS wants to be rough on students to produce something in us as people and lawyers... GREAT! I'm all for it. In fact, that's why I chose Baylor. But check the details to make sure you don't accidentally communicate that we don't matter. Most of us pay a lot to be here and think a lot of the faculty, staff and School.
 

Following on to 8:31…

I’m not sure who’s to blame here, the admin, faculty, or both. Last quarter, there were around 40-50 students who took PC and the bar. Of those students, a handful (less than 10) had a final scheduled well into the end of finals week (Thursday). The schedule went something like this: PCII final on Saturday, next final on Thursday (note the 4 day gap), and then the bar exam started the following Wednesday.

Some might say, “well why did you sign up for a class that you knew had a final exam scheduled that day?” Anyone who knows anything about Baylor Law, its quarter system, the large number of required classes, summer professor sabbaticals, and the relatively small student body (as compared to other schools) knows that this all adds up to there’s just not that many classes available to take.

Add the fact that DJ specifically told several students PRIOR to registering for classes that they would be allowed to take their finals early—a tradition I personally witnessed during EVERY quarter I was at Baylor.

Again, we had a situation where students wanted to take their exam early (in order to allow them to focus on the bar), exam rooms were available, and the professors were willing. According to DJ (hopefully Prof. Osler can shed some light on this), this topic was taken up at a faculty meeting. A faculty meeting???? Good grief!!!! Talk about micromanagement. The story goes that the vote was unanimous (by the faculty) against allowing these handful of students to take their exams early. I found this to be incredibly frustrating, petty, and completely lacking in rationale.

What happened in the end? Half of the 10 had to take their final as scheduled. The others took their finals early (despite the edict handed down from on high that NO ONE would be allowed to take their finals early). In the end, it was just one more example of the rigid Baylor line—it’s so because we said so.
 

Plain and simple, these need to end. Does this topic really need elaboration?
 

Problem: too few faculty members bothered to attend graduation. At the recent July graduation, (not counting the 3 members of the faculty on stage who were chosen by the students to participate: Professors Guinn, Osler, and Wren), I counted no more than 5 other professors in attendance. When the time came in the ceremony to recognize the faculty members in attendance (they were all asked to rise), I remember the split second of horror when we all turned around and didn’t see ANYONE standing. We then realized that 5 professors had actually made the effort (they were sitting in the nosebleed section on the very last row) to attend. I was somewhat relieved when I finally saw that SOMEONE from the faculty had actually attended, but the low turnout was like a punch in the gut. As much as I’d like to see some things change around BLS, I think most of us do respect the faculty and their accomplishments, but this event made me question whether that respect is misplaced since the feeling is apparently not mutual.

In light of the rigor and pure hell that Baylor puts its students through, I had really hoped that the great divide would’ve been bridged to some degree at our graduation. How hard would it have been for Prof. Powell to attend the reception afterwards and at least fake that he was interested in any of us?

Solution: mandatory faculty attendance at graduation. Graduation should be considered a “professional appointment”.
 

Problem- mandatory attendance at Law Day

Solution- let the free market decide. No more forced attendance.
 

Law Day--

Uh, that one I think we solved. There isn't going to be Law Day anymore.

The others are harder. Which doesn't mean they don't merit attention.

I wouldn't talk about what happens in faculty meetings on a blog (other than that one where we made the new faculty fight each other-- see archives), but I will say that some of your concerns have been on my radar, at least, and others I wasn't aware of.
 

Yes, 1L's fear practice court more than we fear God (impressive given that we go to a Baptist insitution).

I'd like to second longer hours for the library. If not the library, than how about just the building? Let's face it, students have all sorts of odd schedules when studying. Some of us like to study early in the morning. Some of us like to study late into the night. Others...apparently like doing both. If you're gonna give us all this work, let us at least do it on our own schedule.
 

I'm going to add one of my worst pet peeves: professors who don't respect the clock. We've all been witness (or been victim) of showing up for class 2 minutes late and getting booted, or at least publically scolded. The rationale for this is that the judge won't put up with people running late. And I understand that, and have no problem with that. I'm compulsive OCD Type A about getting places early, so that's fine with me.

But what gets me is when professors come in late, and then let the class run over five or six...or seven...or eight minutes. Talk about real world? Do you get to keep talking when the little red light turn on in front of you? Right now I have a class at 1 that regularly extends to 2:08 or 2:09, sometimes 2:10. Then I have a 2:15 class that actually starts at 2:13, and if you're not there at 2:13, you're late. So three days a week, I have to start packing up before the end of class, wait for the three people on either side of me to move so I can get out (didn't know what I was getting into when I chose the middle seat on a row), then run to the locker room, change out my books, and race to the next class at a dead sprint. I've been given the "You're almost late" glare several times for skidding into my seat right as the sign in chart reaches me, and there's no point in saying "But, but, but, I just got out of class!"

I've never hidden the fact that I work. Wish I didn't have to, but we don't always get what we want. More times than I want to think about, I've gotten out of a class that was supposed to end at 3:20 closer to 4, or been in a makeup class that was supposed to end at 4:40 but that I had to leave at 4:55 and it was still going. I'm supposed to be at work at 5, which makes for an interesting few minutes as I'm trying to get there. I'm sure I'm not the only one who also has other committments, and the assumption on professors that they can talk as long as they want because we have no where else to be is disrespectful. I don't think it's a conscious choice of "hmm, I'm going to enforce my iron will on the students by holding them thirty minutes over and publically flogging anyone who tries to leave early, no matter what their reason." Like someone in the comments said, I don't think a lot of these decisions are consciously made to screw the students, but we're under so much pressure and have to deal with so many seemingly arbitrary situations that it's easy to assume that whenever something bad happens, it was done on purpose.
 

10:35 follow up:

As a graduate of BLS that didn't finish in the top 15% but did finish in the top 1/3, I will second the fact that the CSO needs serious improvement. OCI did little to nothing for me and after multiple visits to the CSO office, I was merely given a list of Baylor lawyers working in my desired cities. That doesn't help. I had to fend for myself and it took me 10 months to find a position. I received more help from Dean Jackson in my search and that's not even her job (but kudos to her for trying). Sadly, some serious work needs to be done in the CSO. Baylor grads earn their law degree the hard way and the CSO should help them in reaping the rewards for that hard work.
 

For what it's worth re CSO (who seem to be trying hard)--

At Yale Law School, firms obviously went pretty deep. However, there were many types of jobs for which we had to go out on our own and pursue them-- the school didn't bring recruiters to us. For example, almost all government jobs, criminal jobs, and in-house jobs were found by students on their own, along with academic jobs (which a fair number pursued). I realize it is a totally different situation, but I just want to say that the do-it-yourself process is something that many of us have been through even at schools where CSO gave us every possible advantage based on the reputation of the school.

I think one thing we could do is have profs. go out to sell the school to employers, to get them to go deeper. PC should be a huge advantage in this area. It is hard to do that with our teaching schedules, though.
 

2 things...

1. PC isn't as horrible as everyone says it is. It sucks, but is manageable.

2. Problem - Grades. Way too many UNDESERVED Cs, Ds, and Fs.
Solution - Quit trying to be such hardasses. What is the point of giving low grades to 75% of the class?
 

Just wanted to add to the discussion regarding CSO:

The CSO is comprised of very nice and fun individuals. However, these are not the primary characteristics that should be represented in this office. BLS needs a CSO that is determined to finding the students at this school rewarding employment. This goes far beyond telling us about Martindale Hubbel and showing us how to search for lawyers who went to the same undergrad school. The employees of this office should be professionals at what they do and further the administration should demand results.
 

Re: CSO, I think Kat and Monica do very well considering the resources placed at their disposal. In particular, I know many students who complain but who never developed a relationship with them. How can they sell you if they don't know you?

I would like to see Baylor sold better to employers, but I'm not sure whose job that is. I'm not sure what it would cost to really sell BLS on a state-wide scale, either, but I'd love to see it happen. I was the first BLS student who ever clerked for the firm I worked for in SA. The next BLS student hired there is now an associate. We have something to sell here, but consumers don't see us on the shelves. That needs to be fixed.

I would like a cappucino machine in the lounge and 24-hour swipe-card access to the building for students. There are plenty of cameras to keep us honest after hours.

I think practice court is awsome. I think there should be advanced evidence and advanced procedure for students who want it. All I want is to try cases (that's why I came here), but I had to take a bunch of fairly worthless (for me) classes and got no better training, really, than any of my classmates who couldn't have cared less. T&E, Fed Tax, LAPP, and such were no help to me in finding a job or preparing for a crim career. I could've used evidence 2 years earlier, though. Perhaps the trial advocacy school could develop a serious trial advocacy or criminal track to get us ready for our careers instead of just for the bar?
 

I realize that several people have brought this up, but I wanted to reiterate what a problem the grading is for those of us looking for jobs. In applying for both LLM and government positions, you come to realize that grades are a huge deal for the people who make these decisions. And in many ways, they should be. When looking at a pool of candidates from widely different backgrounds and parts of the country, the only thing that provides you with some sort of idea as to how to compare them is their grades. This is the whole point of having grades. If Baylor just needed to know how to rank us at graduation to figure out whether or not to put an honors designation, we could have an internal rank only. Instead, they are there so that employers can get some idea as to how we compare not just to other Baylor students, but to UT students, and Harvard students, and U of Virginia students, etc.

Since grades are intended to measure your skill in relation to others across the nation (or even just the state), the argument that Baylor is the only school doing it right sounds (and is) ridiculous.

We gain nothing from the current policy. Those of us here think about our rank more than we do our GPA, because we realize it is unnaturally low (plus, never having encountered this type of scale, it means little to us as well). Employers and graduate schools view us as subpar and never even get to the little page (if it's included at all) about how our program is more "rigorous".

Sadly, we'll never know how much this really affects us. If an employer throws your application away after a glance because your grades aren't high enough, they don't e-mail you to let you know. I will probably graduate long before this problem is solved, but know that I have already experienced the disadvantages of this system and may have to rethink my career choices because of it.
 

I think a lot of what I feel strongly about has already been mentioned, but I will repeat anyway.

I would really like for the library to be open 24 hours. Barring that, it would be nice for the building to be officially open for 24 hours. It's not that I'm not already up all hours of the night studying, but sometimes you have to leave your apt. to get something done and that often leads to study spots that aren't as safe and quiet or ones where you kind of have to spend money if you're going to be there all night, as is my custom during finals at Denny's. If 24 hours can't be done all the time (and it really ought to be since the undergrads get it, and their library is a social hour disaster) then at least during finals and a week or two prior to them.

The grades are also frustrating. There are only so many times you can apologize for your grade and explain them before the fact that you are apologizing for a lot of hard work gets to you. It would be fine to grade hard if it weren't so detrimental to us in the job search, but it is, and I think that really something should be done to ameliorate that. Baker's idea of adding +s to the GPA system is a workable compromise between grading comparably to other schools and maintaining a very competitive grading system and would be a step in the right direction in my eyes.

I also agree that grades should not be turned in after deadline. As someone who has taken LARC II more than once, I will chant the mantra, "What does a deadline mean if everyone doesn't have to follow it? In the real world, you have to honor deadlines," followed by the former Torts professor's personal story of a friend who shot himself over a missed filing deadline. A lot of time and effort is spent drilling into us the consequences of untimeliness, and if we can't shorten the period in which the deadline falls, then let's at least respect that deadline.

The last thing I think is really important is that the school do more to educate our potential employers about what it is that we do here and especially PC. Maybe this could be attached to a PR-like position and not a burden that lies on the faculty and staff of Baylor Law as a whole. It would be nice to see something more proactive than a form letter that I can print and attach to my resumé.

All that said, the overwhelming majority of faculty members I have encountered have treated me with respect and human dignity in our interactions both in class and out. Yes, a lot needs to be done in how the student body is treated as a group, but it also is not all bad, so there is still hope on that front.
 

Prof Osler:

Please talk relate the concerns we are expressing to the appropriate people. We are open and honest because we trust you and feel you have our best interest at heart! Thanks for listening
 

I agree with the remarks about selling BLS to employers so they will go deeper in the class. Wasn't there a video coming out to do just that? What ever happened with that video? I was filmed and told it was for just this purpose. I had no idea the staff was even working on this idea until I showed up for the filming.

I think it would be nice for students to be told about these kinds of plans so students can see that the school is being proactive about this.
 

I forgot to put my solution. Sorry. I think one possible short-term solution for those of us in school now could be to add points to our grades when they are posted to outsiders. For instance, if our average GPA is .5 points lower than the average at UT or SMU, then add .5 to every student's GPA solely for comparison purposes. This wouldn't necessarily have to be done within the transcript system, but it could be. Think on it...
 

The grading is probably one of the student body's most legitimate gripes. We are told that Baylor gives us the grades we deserve and resists artificial grade inflation. But the response is to artificially deflate our grades. This does nothing but hurt student job prospects unfairly as many others have mentioned. This problem can be easily solved by just adding grade points to everyone's GPA, though I don't see why those grade points should not be applied to the transcript as another poster mentioned.

As for CSO, the trouble many of us have finding jobs is partly our own, certainly, but I think it is also a function of our artificially low GPAs. There are ways to solve the job problem as it relates to CSO. I know many other schools implement blind or lottery style interviewing policies so that all students get an opportunity to interview for 2nd year clerkships. This is an easy solution and shows respect for students who may be discouraged because they been shut out of the interviewing process. If Baylor is really as great an institution of legal education as it claims then every Baylor lawyer is good enough to be interviewed and employed, even those who are not in the top 15% of their class.
 

Just a stab in the dark here...

I think you may have hit a nerve.

I hope someone is listening....
 

As a current PC'er, I can say that it is hard but I think I've learned a lot so far. There are some things I dislike about the class, however. I don't mind the hard work--I knew I'd have to work hard when I came here. What I don't like is that things are made harder just for the sake of making them harder. For example, we get our mini trial schedule, generally, on Friday before mini trials are supposed to start on the next Monday. When, in practice (aside perhaps from some minor criminal cases--I'm sure Osler has experienced this) would we ever get a case file on Friday and have to try the entire case on Monday? In fact, based upon our discussion in PR today (if I understood correctly) it would be unethical to take a case and do that, because it would be ineffective representation. I guess my solution to this would be to get the mini trial schedule out a week earlier.

I would also like to see PC and evidence moved to the second year. I think it would make us that much more marketable (and perhaps help make up for our low GPA's) to have had those classes when applying for 2L clerkships. I don't feel like there was any reason I couldn't have taken those classes last year.

I wholeheartedly agree with everyone that's talked about low GPA's. Because I have a good ranking in my class, I always put that number (my %) rather than my GPA, because my GPA is so low compared to other schools. I have no problem working for my grades, but I think that when I do work for those grades, they should be comparable to the grades of others with whom I'm competing for jobs. I'd also like to see a different grading curve--maybe throw in a B+ and a C+ or something. Its frustrating to miss an A- by 1 point and get the B.
 

Just so everyone knows... I think most of these comments have been useful and informative (and fair).

I will do a synopsis and reaction post in the morning, so if you have a comment, make it now!
 

Minor complaint, I guess, but one that I've heard a lot of students talk about...why is it that the start of Christmas break keeps getting pushed back closer and closer to Christmas? It's hard enough for the people who live in Texas...it's even tougher for those of us who have to fly home. Simple solution - just start Christmas break a few days earlier and start class a few days earlier in January. That way, we still get our two weeks' vacation and don't have to fight the Christmas crowds.
 

As a Nov. 05 grad, I would just like to add that I also find the CSO lacking. I went to law school with absolutely no desire to work in a firm, but to be a prosecutor. I feel as if I had very little direction from the CSO in this regard. If I wasn't looking for a job with a firm or a judicial clerkship, there wasn't much they could do for me. While I think PC was a great program and I learned a lot from it, I got LOTS of blank stares when explaining the program during interviews. Usually someone in the interview would say, "oh, like a trial advocacy class" and then move on. I think CSO and professors should take a more active role in getting the PC reputation out there for potential employers.
 

I don’t want to paint with too broad a brush here but I believe this generally applies: too many Baylor professors are arrogant, condescending, and downright indifferent towards their students. Why in the world do some find it necessary to treat their students with such disdain? I won’t name names but we all know who the culprits are.

Granted there are some excellent professors that are also fine individuals and they treat students with dignity and respect. Top of the list is Prof. Guinn. He’s as smart as any other professor at the law school and students love him. Maybe it’s because he’s the most real person at the law school. Osler, you’re right up there too.

I’m all for the rigorous program. It challenged me and I learned a lot. However, too much of my time was spent trying to avoid being assigned a memo or getting booted out of class. Fear is a powerful motivator. Too much of it results in an impediment to learning.
 

Non Compus Mentus:

Thank you for the valuable information regarding the tier level of my law school. That was very informative of you; not to mention pretentious and self-righteous.

I must disagree with your contention that it should necessarily be difficult to find a job if your grades are not at the top of the class. Baylor’s class sizes are very small, and as stated by many other persons leaving comments, our grading curve is severe. Because of this, percentile rankings can be slightly misrepresentative of reality. For instance, apx .1 to .2 GPA points separates students in the 35% to 60% range. Accordingly, a big chunk of students don’t even get their foot in the door during the OCI process due to a tenth of GPA point. Yeah, I guess you could say life is just tough, but should this part of life be this tough. Maybe we are not a top tier school, but we are damn sure as good as UH and SMU, and those students, even middle of the pack students, do not have the same problems finding jobs as we do.
 

About applying to and being accepted at Baylor...
I will admit that before coming here I convinced myself the administration was inept. Everything I received from Baylor had the wrong date on it. I realize there are 3 entering classes every year- but they need to shape up on all the cutting and pasting being done.
 

Class schedules from a 2Q perspective.
We have no choice in the classes we take the 1st year or the times we take them. I'd appreciate it if the administration would put together decent schedules that don't have us in class from 10:30-2:00 everyday or with a completly different schedule each day of the week like we'll have next quarter.
 

Law students attend law school for a variety of different reasons. Every student knows when they walk through the doors for the first time that the professors know infinitely more law than them. Students are in awe of their knowledge and skill. They’re taught the virtues of being punctual, accurate, and respectful. I think it is fair to say that most of us probably thought that law school professors would mentor and counsel us during our law school experience.

What a rude awakening to realize that the rule du jour from many of our faculty and administrators is “Do as I say, not as I do.” Previous posters have already pointed out issues such as having grades timely posted and releasing students from class on time. And I never once found it funny that some professors (“fill_in_the_blank-athon”) find it necessary to relentlessly preach punctuality and “professional appointments” and then race through the last half or third of the syllabus in a weeks time. It’s absolute lunacy. It’s counterproductive. And it’s not funny.

The “tough love” concept at Baylor is something that a lot more folks would be on board with if we had professors and administrators who were willing to lead by example rather than by edict.
 

http://www.lawschool.com/dukechanges.htm
 

i posted the link about duke law changing its grading scale. i'm not saying that baylor should adopt that scale, just pointing out that other school are taking measures to keep their students competitive with students from other schools. it's certainly not unheard of. well, at least not outside of baylor.
 

…was in contributing $ towards the PCII “gift”. I am all for showing appreciation to those that deserve it. But after two quarters of unrelenting BS and intimidation, we collectively “decided” to make a gift???

A previous poster noted Prof. Guinn. He’s one of my all-time favorites; a true gentlemen among gentlemen. I gladly contributed towards his gift and I felt good about it.

However……contributing towards the PCII gift felt a lot like tipping the skycap at the airport. You’re not giving him $5 for the 30 seconds he’s devoted to slapping a baggage tag on your luggage. You’re really paying him an upfront ransom to avoid your baggage from ending up in Lagos, Nigeria. The class gift? In some twisted way I think we all secretly believed that if the old man was happy, maybe he wouldn’t fail anyone. In the end we knew it was a lie, but we all hoped it might be true.

Suggestion for the upcoming PCII class: don’t contribute to any class gift unless you really believe it is deserved. In the end, your going to end up with an uncertified graduation and you just might fail anyway. Plus, you can’t ask for your money back knowing that you’re going to have to sit through another 9 ½ weeks.
 

I came to this school basically because I was awarded a full scholarship. Without it, I would have gone elsewhere. If I knew then what I know now, I may have gone elsewhere anyway. I certainly would not recommend to anyone else that they come here, unless a very sizeable scholarship was attached. Please keep in mind that I am a "Baylor guy"- I like the school and the education I recieved...but, in my mind, absent a pot full o' money, the advantages do not outweigh the disadvantages. In my mind, the administration and the occasional faculty member are entirely too enamored with the "Baylor Mystique," certain components of which are discussed below.

The Grades: I must agree with the others that the grading system, as implemented, is both archaic and unfair. It puts our students at a disadvantage across the board, and has zero gain for the school, other than perhaps giving certain people a warm, fuzzy feeling to know that Baylor is the only school in the U.S. keeping total grade inflation at bay. That is not a good enough reason to adversely affect any student's career. Up the grades.

The Fear: Many of my fellow students felt an intense loathing (leading to statements such as, "I'll never give this school money once I'm outta here!") for the fear and intimidation that certain faculty members instill in their students, chiefly in the first year and later in Practice Court. I compare the situation to that of the old style drill sergeants in the Army and Marine Corps: demand, berate, demand, berate. This creates a huge amount of stress between the student and the professor. It is significant that the military has completely revamped its basic drill program: as one drill sergeant put it, (paraphrased), "we create stress between the recruit and the mission, not between the recruit and the instructor." Students should not feel intimidated by their instructor.

The Unimportance: Coupled with this fear was a feeling of inconsequence: the student is not important, his opinion does not matter, he is lucky to be here. I don't mean standing up in front of the class; the Socratic method I don't have a problem with. The common complaint was a feeling that schedules, the grading system, etc., were made with the convenience of anyone but the student in mind. Pay attention to the student complaining of the root beer floats; nobody forgets being treated as an inconsequential person. The students are any school's entire reason for being; they shouldn't be coddled but they should be treated as if they mattered.

The Program: Baylor's Practice Court program does an excellent job of preparing students for the legal job market of 1986. It teaches them skills that are of massive benefit right out of school in worker's comp, med mal, and insurance defense trials. The only problem is those fields don't exist anymore. Meanwhile, unless you're doing criminal work, you're probably not going to court much, if at all, for YEARS, even if you're a litigator- and by that time, how much of that experience do they remember? And if you do focus on criminal work, as I did, you get frustrated by the civil law focus of the program. I don't know how many recently graduated students use their PC experience, but someone needs to find out and determine if the program is a) worth keeping (I think it is), and b) worth keeping around in its present format (I think harder to justify). It's great for an aspiring litigator, but should a student with a T&E concentration be forced to take an advocacy class? For what purpose? Who benefits from that? The program was designed for a certain time and legal market, but times have changed. PC needs to evolve as well. Shift the focus to litigators and criminal attorneys in training. Better still, break up the program, enhance the concentrations, and give each concentration a Mini-PC capstone run by the expert professors. You're already on that path in Crim Prac and Pro; why not expand it to T&E, or Biz Org? The legal market is specialized now, so set a trend and embrace that specialization. You can keep basic PC for those students in a general program.

Baylor puts a lot of emphasis on its unique nature. That helps it stand out in the crowd of schools it competes against. But there are two ways to stand out in any crowd, and two ends of any Bell curve.
 

Well said Mr. Metcalf, now drop down and give me 50!
 

This comment by 7:35, I believe, sums up precisely what is wrong with BLS:

"we create stress between the recruit and the mission, not between the recruit and the instructor."

Unfortunately, BLS has it backwards.
 

Thank you, but wrong Alex.
 

i agree with the comments on the baylor grading scale. i just wanted to add a real life example of how it really affects baylor students. i accepted a job with a big texas firm, and the next year the hiring partner at this firm asked me about some baylor applicants. he then said that he noticed that the grades from baylor are really low and look bad compared to other schools. then he said, "Maybe you should talk to your school about this. You should let them know that this is happening." I explained to him that the school knows and that the school is actually proud of that fact.

He said that he goes through resumes so fast that there isn't really time to make distinctions between the grading scales of different schools. He just sees the GPA and moves on. And then he added that every other hiring attorney he knows does the same thing. Then he said "I'm sure a lot of good Baylor students fall through the cracks that way."
 

Students at all levels are apt to complain. Administrations are an easy scapegoat for many problems.

However, since beginning Baylor, I've often wondered if students at other schools have the same level of dissatisfaction that I feel. I seriously doubt it.

Even though I'm in the top 3rd of my class, since the day my first quarter grades came in, I have no option of transferring to a comparable school. Who wants a sub 3.0 student?

We are consumers who can't take back the product, who can't get a refund, so the administration has no need to listen seriously to our complaints. We have no power.

We pay 10 thousand dollars per quarter to people who have no incentive to treat us like valued customers. It's a bad situation. One that won't change with the current administration.
 

please note - i am an 'actively campagins against Baylor' alumni. the problem is economics, and so the problem is grades. the market for lawyers is swamped, except for technical specializations like IP, etc. thus, by condemning most of the student body to 2.5 or thereabouts, Baylor hamstrings a graduate's employability. the 'leg up' that the Baylor program is meant to provide in the workforce is so outweighed by the grim culling process of employement that any out-of-the-box advantage is, at least in the 'short term', immaterial.
Baylor prides itself on it practical approach to the practice of law. This notion, however, is predicated (at least for the erstwhile student) on employability. To conform to its own stated goal, Baylor must adjust its grading system to match its market competitors. Else, the top 25% float, and the rest sink. I am not sure, however, that the majority of the faculty cares.
 

So long as we're going on about the administration, I think we need to complain about the lack thereof. The University of Texas has NINE deans, one of them exclusively devoted to student affairs. Baylor (yes, it's much smaller) has two, and Dean Jackson teaches what is basically a full time schedule. Who are students supposed to talk to, or air grievances to? Who sticks up for the students and their problems? I know several students who have gone to Dean Jackson with problems, by default I suppose, and have received what I would call as politely as I can the brush off. Meaning by this no disrespect to DJ, who is a lovely person and cares very much and etc., but especially in a school this intense, students need someone in a position of power in the administration who is there for them specifically to air their grievances instead of having to rely on someone who is wearing far too many hats as it is and might not be all that interested in the first place.
 

Solution: Re-name BLS "The Bridge Over River Kwai." Or, at least have the entire administration watch the movie. The movie is about a POW in WWII that has to build a rather elaborate bridge for his capturers - as part of his confinement. The problem: His pride and arrogance caused him to get so caught up in making this bridge that he forgot what he was there for. That's what the administration has done. They've become so proud of creating this military-like school where students have to earn their C's, that they've forgotten why we're here...to get a freaking job.

So, if we re-name the school and one of us says, I went to "the bridge"... well then prospective employers will know that that means we dealt with assinine and counterproductive policies for 3 years and would expect us to have poor GPA's.
 

Also add to alexf's last post (8:58)--we do have a person designated as the student relations person--Heather Creed. However, they stick her doing a LOT of admissions stuff, trying to RECRUIT students, instead of addressing the CURRENT STUDENTS' concerns. Her title "[something] Student Relations" isn't correct. We don't see Heather so much of a Student Relations person because her job has taken her elsewhere, working with different things. She's great at what she does--but if the title says it, she needs to be allowed to actually address the current students' issues; and she'd be able to do so if she weren't out of town recruiting so much.
 

While we're suggesting new names for the law school, how about "Abu Ghraib on the Brazos"?
 

"While we're suggesting new names for the law school, how about "Abu Ghraib on the Brazos"? "

much more fitting than the marine corps of law schools
 

Re: pc

I'd like to revisit what others have said: It would be nice if somebody other than Baylor grads knew how rough/valuable PC is. All the Baylor grads I've talked to sort of chuckle... like its an inside joke only Baylor law students get to appreciate. Problem: only one hiring partner I've met with is a Baylor grad.

I'd like to get some advantage (other than an inside joke) for attending "the marine corp of law schools."
 

Just found the blog...
I am a 3Q. I am now actively against coming to Baylor. My GPA is too low to transfer and I am too far in debt to quit. I wanted to be a lawyer when I came in here. I have been faced with several rejections from this school and it has taken its toll. I want to feel better about this school, but there is no one there to help with that.

The grades are a problem, the lack of variety in classes is a problem, CSO is a problem, and the disrespect from the administrators is also a problem.
 

Just found the blog...
I am a 3Q. I am now actively against coming to Baylor. My GPA is too low to transfer and I am too far in debt to quit. I wanted to be a lawyer when I came in here. I have been faced with several rejections from this school and it has taken its toll. I want to feel better about this school, but there is no one there to help with that.

The grades are a problem, the lack of variety in classes is a problem, CSO is a problem, and the disrespect from the administrators is also a problem.
 

I just found the blog comments as well....
I think the harshness of the socratic method (as addressed in the comments above) is one of the most beneficial things that Baylor does. Its hard, stressful and embarrasing at times, but it is what makes us stand out from students at other schools.

I think the PC program should evolve as the practice of law changes.

I think the fact that only 5 professors showed up at graduation is HORRIBLE and UNACCEPTABLE. We go through hell at this school for 3 years, the least the professors could do is give us the respect of a "congraduations" when we sucessfully receive a degree. Professor attendance at graduation should be mandatory
 

I think it was five profs in the audience, then there were four of us on the stage. Which makes nine, which is about half the faculty. Given that it was summer commencement and lots of people were on sabbatical, I think having well over half the faculty who were in town is less than HORRIBLE and UNACCEPTABLE. It's pretty good.

I left my family and came here from Michigan to give the invocation at that commencement, and I think that's more typical than not of the sacrifices people around here make.
 

Intro is boring and unchallenging. Some of the readings are interesting, some of them seem random and ill planned. Students might benefit more if they focused on our first topic, philosophy of law. There you can raise some hard questions about justifications behind our legal philosophies, and I felt like I could have learned something had we gone more in depth on the topic. Reading Milligan, the Brown decisions, and other things has been intersting. Some of the points made in class... over and over again... about the lawyer being able to institute social change have become, through dumbing down and repetition, so banal as to render something as inspiring as the decisions in Brown to be something I loathe to hear about once a week. Everyone should read that stuff... But, the class should present more of a challenge or cease to exist-- right now most ppl feel it's a waste of time. Also, the quizzes test us on inane details with no import. Ever.
 

When applying for Baylor, I discovered they offered this wonderful thing called the Equal Justice Scholarship. The scholarship would pay for my entire legal education as long as I committed to three years of public sevice work after graduation. I found out about the scholarship after the deadline but was allowed to apply and if the person it was offered to didn't accept it, others would be considered. Well, I never heard anything more about the scholarship but I went ahead and came to school here which meant borrowing thousands upon thousands of dollars to fund my education. I later asked about the scholarship again, only to find out that no one received it. I asked if current students would be offered the chance to apply and was told no. As it turns out, this year after being unable to find anyone who would accept the scholarship Baylor decided to offer it to current students. Though I was extremely frustrated that I had been borrowing money for five quarters by this point and the scholarship would not be retroactive, I went ahead and applied. I was told a couple a times that a decision would be made soon. The applications were due on Sept. 5 and it is now Oct. 19 and a decision has not been made. I went to talk to Dean Jackson about this issue and she didn't even really know who was deciding the scholarship or how to address my problem. She said unfortunately, Baylor was trying to offer the scholarship to get a student to commit to coming to Baylor and that obviously never worked out. She gave me several other excuses that didn't make me feel any better. I am not upset with her but just with whoever is responsible for situations like these. It just seems like Baylor doesn't even care about the financial situations of current students. I have borrowed around 60,000 dollars now when I could have been offered this scholarship last year when I started at Baylor. I think it is ridiculous that this scholarship was not awarded to someone last year and completely frustrating that now, after offering it to a current student no decision has been made.
 

I just found this thread and the comments and hope you read it Osler even if it is a re-hash. Also it probably won't be hard for many of you to figure out who this is, if you know me.

PC:
It's been said that if you go to BLS it is b/c you want to be a litigator and that you know what you're getting into. Wrong - some of us want to be and have always wanted to be transactional lawyers. I'll give you an example. Many of us have come here for one reason - Prof. Tom Featherston. Find me one other law school (in this part of the country) that teaches anything substantial beyond our equivalent of T&E I and I'll give you $5. I frankly don't care about PC and it scares me every day. One rationale that was given to me as an aspiring transactional attorney was, "Well, if you ever have to show up in a courtroom BLS just wants to make sure you don't embarrass them."

Grades:
I have saved every grade distribution from every class I have taken for the last 6 quarters. I did this to show people/employers how you could be in the top 33% w/ a GPA of 2.99. I clerked for a court this past summer (a probate court that is - for those of you trying to reconcile my PC comments above w/ the fact that I worked for a court) and the staff was shocked! Let me qualify this by adding that both the judge and the associate judge's spouses are full-time tenured faculty at that little law school down in Austin. Add to that that the court administrator taught first year legal writing at UT for 18 years. They could not believe it, nor could they understand the rationale.

Work Load to Grades to Jobs:
To date, the work load has been manageable and has generally resulted in good preparation. But unless this is reflected w/ realistic GPAs it may all be for nothing. I'm a little older than the traditional incoming student and I worked 6 years before coming to BLS. My best friend from undergrad who is the same age got the law school bug about the same time I did, but he chose to attend that little school down in Austin. He loves telling me how he can "pass" when called on, gets to bring outlines to certain exams and how some exams are really easy. One example from first year property - Comment on the concept of adverse possession and whether you think it should be an allowable practice. I don't think he even knows there are 3, 5, 10 and 25 year statutes. (I also had to chuckle when he told me that he wanted to sue a lady that threw trash on his lawn and he wanted punitive damages. Not a joke.) Like most UT 3d years he's spending the fall semester in London (drinking). I love this guy to death and he was in my wedding, but he's taken fewer classes, doesn't have a realistic grasp of the law and hasn't put in 1/10th of the effort I have. He even agrees with me. I know hard work is supposed to be its own reward, but that is of little comfort when he'll be at Baker Botts next fall earning more than twice what I'll be making. (BTW - he's no where near UT law review standards in case you're wondering.) Any firm like Baker Botts wouldn't even give me a second thought b/c I couldn't pass the # cut off.

For those of you wondering why didn't I go to another school, see comments regarding Featherston above. Stanley Johanson may also be "the bomb" when it comes to T&E, but he only offers 2 courses and relegates most of the work to teaching assistants. And yes I was accepted to schools w/ higher rankings than BLS.

(As an aside, I would enjoy seeing a cage match between T. Feath and Johanson. I also think BLS estate planning attys need a gang sign to repruzent T. Feath when those UT estate lawyers say Johanson this, Johanson that.)

Last comment on work load:
(Readers - If you haven't figured out who I am by now this may give it away.) In most cases, IT REALLY DOES HELP YOU. Going into the summer w/ the meager knowledge of T&E I and my mad LARC skills - the judge offered me his 2 year judicial clerkship when I graduate and I accepted the job. (Perplexing isn't it given my feelings about PC, but I have my reasons - like being able to tell a client how the judge would interpret that clause in your will. I concede that in the end I'll get more out of PC than I thought.) There were 2 UT students working there this summer and his current Law Clerk went to Cornell. Most of his former Law Clerks went to UT and one went to Duke. The BLS work ethic paid off b/c he wouldn't have considered a BLS student before this summer.

THE POINT - BLS has a great "product" to sell, but no one is listening b/c of our crappy grading system. If BLS students can get a foot in the door, we will conquer the competition. The little memo explaining our class ranks and grades is not a fix for this problem, no one reads it!

CSO:
If your class rank is less than desirable, develop a relationship w/ Monica and Kat and also take some responsibility. Sometimes you need to make stuff happen. Network.

Thanks for your patience.
 

I'm freaking depressed. I guess I am a little out of the loop because I didn't know that my slightly above average class rank leaves me pretty much hopeless. Is all this talk about how much a Baylor degree is worth really true? I would love some of the alums that read this blog to comment on this. When I say comment I don't mean just suck up. Honestly inform those of us who do not know how the system works, if we should look into transfering. I do not want to spend another $30K/year and go through PC, if I am going to have a horrible time finding a job. HELP!!!
 

7:46: take it easy. I believe the stats say that 90+% of BLS grads have jobs w/in months of graduation. I graduated in 02 and had no problem landing a job.

Don't strictly rely on the on-campus interviews. Do some independent research and find where you want to work. Then you can contact the hiring partner to find out what you need to do to be considered by them. Don't freak out.
 

7:46: take it easy. I believe the stats say that 90+% of BLS grads have jobs w/in months of graduation. I graduated in 02 and had no problem landing a job.

Don't strictly rely on the on-campus interviews. Do some independent research and find where you want to work. Then you can contact the hiring partner to find out what you need to do to be considered by them. Don't freak out.
 

Professor Osler, thank you for this opportunity to state our many objections to Baylor Law School. First, I would like to say that I have wanted to be a lawyer for many years, and I was very excited about coming to Baylor Law School. If only I had known...

Now, I have many, many issues which I won't get into b/c so many other students have already addressed them (esp. the grading scale). However, I will speak to the PC program for a moment. I came to Baylor knowing generally about the PC program. I've never really wanted to be a trial lawyer, but it didn't seem like a bad idea.

However, by the time I actually started PC (this quarter), I was already completely disillusioned about BLS for so many of the reasons mentioned in this blog. And, at this point, I would give ANYTHING to not be at Baylor Law right now. I feel like PC is completely worthless for me and it really just makes me want to NEVER be a lawyer. I hate that I have become so bitter, but that is the result of going through this program. I hate how most of the professors make us feel completely incompetent and inferior, worthless beings. I hate that we are expected to do an unreasonable amount of work, and cruelly punished and humiliated in front of our classmates for mistakes.

As much as I hate all of that, more than anything it makes me sad. It makes me sad that I and fellow students are so bitter towards a school that has so much potential.

All that said, I know that we are expected to make suggestions as well, so here goes: PC may be great in theory, but I believe that it creates so much bitterness, contempt and fear among the student body, that BLS is really shooting itself in the foot. Not that I can ever imagine liking PC, there are some things that would make it better.

1) Make the workload reasonable. It is not reasonable to ask students to read, brief, understand, and remember even close to the amount of material now assigned (esp. PCI).

2) There is just something WRONG about the PC "memos." While students at other schools may merely pass when called on, we are punished with memos when we do not perform up to the professor's standards. I'm not complaining b/c I've received them, but b/c I think it is an arbitrary practice.

3) Reduce the number of required exercises. They are unbelievably time-consuming and emotionally, physically, and mentally draining. I'm already worried about how in the world I'll manage 4 exercises next quarter on top of taking PCIII and three other classes.

4) Respect. Maybe it's b/c I had a wonderful experience in undergrad, w/ great professors who were friendly, interested, and caring. But, I cannot imagine feeling less respect from and for the BLS professors. Many try to force respect by being hard-asses, but I think that just forces fear and hate more than respect. I remember in a recruiting video I watched before choosing Baylor - they said that they put the couches outside the classrooms to encourage discussion between students and faculty outside the classroom... I have never ONCE seen a professor discuss anything w/ any student outside a classroom. Furthermore, many of the professors I have actually had in class will not even say hello or look me in the eye when I pass them in the hall, outside, etc. I think that is really sad. Are they all really THAT superior? They can't even say "hello" or smile? Ever?

All that being said, I wish things were different. I wish I didn't hate this school. I wish I didn't cry myself to sleep thinking about what a HUGE mistake this was. I wish I didn't want to go up to every group of prospective students and tell them to run far, far away. I wish this experience hasn't made me feel like such a failure. And, I hope that the administration is considering some of the complaints before them... and that somehow, students in the future won't come to hate this school as I have and I know so many of my fellow students have.
 

If you are saying that we should be able to "pass" when called on, I think most students even would not agree with that.

On the respect thing. Why is it that the profs who give the most abuse get the most honor? Time after time, the prof. who gives the most abuse gets elected to the honor of being in commencement. Think that sends a signal? Yes it does. It says 'we love abuse!'

So.... maybe don't vote him in one time?
 

11:03...Excellent observation. The answer is simple. It's called the "stockholm syndrome". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
 

Loyalty to a more powerful abuser — in spite of the danger that this loyalty puts the victim in — is common among victims of domestic abuse, battered partners and child abuse (dependent children). In many instances the victims choose to remain loyal to their abuser, and choose not to leave him or her, even when they are offered a safe placement in foster homes or safe houses.
 

I still suffer from the insomnia which developed during PC. Ironically, I'm here in Waco to take a depo tomorrow, and I come across this blog and this thread.

One of the biggest complaints voiced has been about the BLS grading system. I think adjusting the grading scale would be a huge mistake.

(1) Though this may be somewhat self-interested, (particularly for my friends that graduated under a 3.0) but changing the grading system really hurts recent graduates. The administration has to bear in mind that changing the grading system reflects poorly upon those graduating under the old grading regime. For instance, at the firm I work at now, which is very large, lateral transfers are not only often compared to recent graduates from the same institution, but often have to compete against them as well. When a 2nd year associate applies to our firm hiring partners will look to the GPA of current applicants (mostly 2L's looking for summer jobs, and post-summer students being considered for permanent employment). A newly adjusted grading system will GREATLY disadvantage BLS alums looking to make a lateral transfer. Considering the very poor OCI process at Baylor, lateral transfers are HUGE for our alums. By making a decision to change the grading system recent alums will inevitably be hurt the most. The system at the firm I work for may not be common, but nevertheless, it is simply common sense that when a BLS alum is applying for a lateral transfer (which mostly occurs w/in 2-4 years after graduating - for reasons I need not expand upon here) and his/her GPA is under a 3.0, and the hiring partner recalls/notices/is told that recent Baylor applicants all have GPA's above a 3.0 (after taking the same classes w/ the same profs) they will almost inevitably be passed upon.

If the administration thinks that sending a letter out to explain the new grading system to firms (for the purpose of protecting past graduates), or some type of public exposure (media, webpage, etc) will get the word out that a new grading system is in place at Baylor, well, then it sort of begs the question: why doesn't the current policy of sending a letter explaining Baylor's grading system work?

Now to appeal to the self-interest of competitive law students. For those of you currently in law school - perhaps the worst thing you could advocate is a change in Baylor's grading system. Just think, you graduated w/ a 3.0. A huge accomplishment at BLS - you were top 35% or so. Well, now recent graduates w/ a 3.0 are coming along who are merely top 65%. And if your argument is true - that how high the GPA is matters - then look how bad you will look (and of course I mean in the employment sense). Those at BLS now should be the ones most opposed to a readjustment of the grading system. Now, I know that most of the people commenting to this blog will say something like: "well, at least it will be better for BLS, as an institution, and for future grads in the long run." That may or may not be the case, but what is definitely true is that your resume/transcript will look worse. The chances that Baylor students will all of a sudden get better/more jobs because of a new grading system is QUITE LOW. However, the chance that you look worse b/c of the new grads coming out w/ GPAs above a 3.0 is VERY HIGH.

(2) GPA's don't matter. When firms thumb through resumes/transcripts they almost exclusively look to percentage (%) ranking in the class. When I used to look at resumes/transcripts - I was told to exclusively look at ranking in the class.

Now, I understand the system for granting interviews/giving jobs at government posts, and judicial clerkships may be different. Perhaps there is a just a simple GPA cutoff. Nevertheless, rather than changing the entire system for the 2% of Baylor grads that take those jobs (to the detriment of the 98% of Baylor grads already in the private sector) BLS should do a better job of apprising those institutions about the grading system. I'd be really surprised if a letter of recommendation from Prof Osler describing how great the applicant is for a judicial clerkship, combined w/ a thorough explanation of the current grading system, and an additional plug of what class-rank the student has won't be enough to offset the seemingly low GPA score. (plus, it seems that fow Baylor's ranking and size, we do pretty well in judicial clerkships)

(3) It is the Baylor way. Earn your grades. Your GPA is meaningless. The only person that knows it is you.

It seems that the students currenlty at BLS are put-off, confused, dejected, disheartened....This has always been the case, and I am sure there are very few students who actually like the way the school is run. However, I can guarantee that once those students have been in practice for a couple of years, they will see the benefit. I did not know a single student at BLS that didn't complain about every little detail at the school all the time. Nor am I exempt - I complained about everything. Now, we all look back ungrudgingly, respectfully, and thankfully. BLS is one of those things you will almost undeniably never understand while you are going through it. The returns are exclusively in your future.

BLS is like working out. It sucks to get up off your lazy A#@ and finally do it. Every lap you run makes you want to quit...each one gets harder... However, when it's finished - most of us feel better, almost all of us are happy w/ the results...you feel stronger for not giving up...and when you finish you are certain you won't want to do it again tomorrow.

Peddling a bike in a gym sucks. Writing a memo for a professor b/c you weren't prepared stinks. Seeing your cholesterol drop 8 points is awesome...Impressing a partner w/ a memo you wrote them - and never showing up late to work - priceless.


Things that really need to change at Baylor:
(1) CSO. Alums from UT, UH, and SMU at my firm all talk about how they ate at luncheons put on by big firms bi-monthly during law school, how firms sponsored bar tabs at local pubs, and how almost any event at their school was sponsored by a firm. Why is nothing at Baylor, besides moot-court competitions, sponsored by a firm? How come the recruiter at my firm doesn't know the names of Baylor's CSO personnel, but are on a first-name basis w/ multiple people in the CSO of UT, UH, and SMU? If you think firms are not interested in Baylor, you are wrong. If you think firms don't want to go to Waco to recruit, you are wrong. If you think that UT, SMU, and UH are so well connected w/ law firms simply b/c they are located in large legal markets, you are wrong. It is about marketing Baylor to firms. Though the entire administration needs to get behind that more, the personnel in the CSO have to do more. Last I remember there were maybe 2 people working in the CSO. I think Prof. Guinn had at least 2 student assistants during the school-year. BLS needs to put more focus on staffing the CSO, and getting the CSO to be more active. "cold-calls" almost never work for a young associate attempting client development for the firm. "cold-calls" from a CSO rep to a Baylor alum at X,Y,Z LLP -i bet could be quite rewarding.

Second - the CSO needs to focus more on the students below the top 25%. I was in the top 10%, law review, moot court. Firms ate me up. Yet, CSO spent more time focusing on me, reading my resume, and pandering to me than to my buddies who were top 40%. How does that make sense? I was going to get a job. They were probably not going to. The focus of CSO should be on the 25-75% range. Not the top 25%.

(2) Moot court selection. (A note to the professor-coaches) Stop the cronyism. I made multiple teams because I had a good relationship with the coaches/profs. I never made the break at the in-school competition. Though I did well at the inter-school competitions, I always felt bad for the students that didn't make the team, but ought to have. Sometimes the students that are most different from you, seem the most raw, and have shown success in the intra-school competition would not only be the most rewarding to work with for you, benefit most from making a team and working with you, but would represent Baylor just as well, if not better. Be fair.