Wednesday, October 18, 2006
Rikki(es), Don't Lose That Number
65 Comments is a lot of writing. And an awful lot of it was good, heartfelt writing. Some of what people had to say was familiar to me, and some of it was news. It deserves some responses.
First off, a caveat. I am only one faculty member, and a relatively junior one at that. I don't represent the faculty as a whole, and I am not a part of the administration of the law school. Please understand that my comments only represent my own views, hopes, or expectations.
One thing I love about Baylor is the investment that we have in the institution. For the students, this is the school that will be yours forever-- it is the Baylor diploma that will be on your wall, and the reputation of this school will frame the way that people see you and your work. For the faculty, this place is our vocation, our life's work, and the people I know well here take that very, very seriously. You might disagree with me or Prof. Powell on something, for example, but I would contest anyone's contention that either of us doesn't love this school or work very hard to make it a great school. The same can be said for the hard work students do, and the passion they bring to our subjects. This common investment is a good starting place for working together to make it better.
I hope, too, that the students will appreciate that we on the faculty have put in a real effort to discern your concerns in the past six months. Consider just two of those concerns we have heard: Law Day and moot court fees. They are both gone, and it was because those concerns were expressed, and we took those concerns seriously. I'm not aware of any retaliation against those people who expressed those concerns, and I hope there would not be retaliation against anyone expressing concerns in the future.
Going forward, you should also know the good work that the Student Relations Committee is doing. Don't scoff at a committee as a way of changing things-- in an organization like a school or a law firm, that is how things change, through the consideration of committee reports. That Committee has for months taken seriously some of the very concerns you are expressing, especially regarding the grading policy. The often eloquent and thorough discussion of that issue on the thread below will become a part of the discussions now. We are taking these issues to heart.
Finally, I have a very definite idea (again, as just one member of the faculty) of what this school can be. It is, will be, and should be a tough law school. The stakes are high, and as a criminal attorney I know that better than anyone. My lack of diligence in a sentencing may cost someone five years of their life, and that matters. What we need to accompany this necessary toughness is a better sense of shared mission, that we are in this together. That is going to require a greater empathy for student concerns than we have shown in the past. It is also going to require the students seeing and acknowledging the commitment we are making to that shared mission (as that becomes clearer over time).
Here's what's best about my job: Once in a while I get an email from a former student telling me about their first trial. I print those out, I save them, they go into a file that is easy to find, and I go back to it often. Some, I copy and fold up and put in my pocket and carry around and re-read. That is my biggest award; a little square of paper jammed into my pocket. They are that important because that is my greatest work success-- Proof that I was able to have a small part in giving someone the skills they used for the common good, the fruit of what their hard work and my hard work could create. To be able to hold that in my hand, carry that in my pocket? What is better than that?
Comments:
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This may be a little late, but I have a short comment RE PC. Coming to BLS I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I have settled on transactions. I still appreciate that Baylor's litigation emphasis will still prepare me for either career, but I do not look forward to getting my a** kicked in PC to learn info I will basically never use. Couldn't we have some sort of comparitively intense transactionally focused class where you close a deal, negotiate, etc? I know some may laugh as I've often heard said that transactional lawyers aren't "real" attys, but someone's got to do it, and I'd rather spend the quarter and a half in classes that deal w/ that side of the law.
# posted by 
: 2:43 PM
: 2:43 PM
This is way off topic, but, per the Baylor Lariat, Dean Jackson is now world famous:
http://www.baylor.edu/lariat/news.php?action=story&story=42473
http://www.baylor.edu/lariat/news.php?action=story&story=42473
# posted by : 5:59 PM
: 5:59 PM
Prof. Osler,
This is the first time I've commented. I'm a 2L and want to encourage you and all Baylor faculty to not back down. While I don't agree with all the traditional teaching methods of Baylor Law professors, I think the accountability AND grading policies are great motivators to helping us learn. (A practice you could consider is giving needed praise when appropriate. Three compliments during my entire undergraduate experience---yep, that's all I got---were all it took to keep me motivated to finish strong. But I also realize complimenting can swell a lot of heads, especially here where most egos were over-inflated to begin with.)
I would encourage you to focus more on what each individual student needs. Maybe a student needs chastisement, but often there are hands hanging down that need lifting and weak knees that need strengthening.
Still, too many of us have arrived thinking everything should be handed to us. After all, all we had to do to get an A in undergrad or high school is go whine to our teachers. Sadly, this attitude merely reflects society's perception that matriculation, by itself, is an education. Thank you for not letting us coast through school. And thank you for taking your obligation to us and our future clients seriously. But be careful to not teach all of us the same. We are individuals with individual needs.
But if we earn an F, flunk us. And don't apologize. You're not "giving" us an F. It's what we deserve.
This is the first time I've commented. I'm a 2L and want to encourage you and all Baylor faculty to not back down. While I don't agree with all the traditional teaching methods of Baylor Law professors, I think the accountability AND grading policies are great motivators to helping us learn. (A practice you could consider is giving needed praise when appropriate. Three compliments during my entire undergraduate experience---yep, that's all I got---were all it took to keep me motivated to finish strong. But I also realize complimenting can swell a lot of heads, especially here where most egos were over-inflated to begin with.)
I would encourage you to focus more on what each individual student needs. Maybe a student needs chastisement, but often there are hands hanging down that need lifting and weak knees that need strengthening.
Still, too many of us have arrived thinking everything should be handed to us. After all, all we had to do to get an A in undergrad or high school is go whine to our teachers. Sadly, this attitude merely reflects society's perception that matriculation, by itself, is an education. Thank you for not letting us coast through school. And thank you for taking your obligation to us and our future clients seriously. But be careful to not teach all of us the same. We are individuals with individual needs.
But if we earn an F, flunk us. And don't apologize. You're not "giving" us an F. It's what we deserve.
# posted by : 10:30 PM
: 10:30 PM
Prof. Osler,
I've been out of BLS long enough that any criticisms I might have had of the school, the program, or the parties involved is probably outdated.
I do think, however, that you've done more of a service to the school through your blog than you realize. It was the feeling of a lot of students during my time at BLS that there was virtually no way to convey any comments or criticisms, no matter how minor or constructive, to the administration or faculty.
I don't know what the short- or long-term effect of opening your comments section to constructive criticism will be, but from the outside looking in, it's definitely a positive step.
Thanks you.
I've been out of BLS long enough that any criticisms I might have had of the school, the program, or the parties involved is probably outdated.
I do think, however, that you've done more of a service to the school through your blog than you realize. It was the feeling of a lot of students during my time at BLS that there was virtually no way to convey any comments or criticisms, no matter how minor or constructive, to the administration or faculty.
I don't know what the short- or long-term effect of opening your comments section to constructive criticism will be, but from the outside looking in, it's definitely a positive step.
Thanks you.
Professor Osler
Thanks for your concern on this issue and your posting of comments. I just fear that you cannot force respect. Certain Professors will not respect students no matter what is said or done.
As a soon to be BLS Alumni, I know that when prospective students ask current students about Baylor they are told to go somewhere else and whatever they do to not go here. The things the professors pride might in the end contribute to its lack of progress. Be tough, be the bootcamp but show respect should be the motto. I just do not think a committee or anything can force that to happen.
Thanks for your concern on this issue and your posting of comments. I just fear that you cannot force respect. Certain Professors will not respect students no matter what is said or done.
As a soon to be BLS Alumni, I know that when prospective students ask current students about Baylor they are told to go somewhere else and whatever they do to not go here. The things the professors pride might in the end contribute to its lack of progress. Be tough, be the bootcamp but show respect should be the motto. I just do not think a committee or anything can force that to happen.
# posted by : 9:16 AM
: 9:16 AM
Professor Osler,
In a former life, I was a teacher and I collected a small handful of similarly rewarding “little squares of paper jammed into my pocket” (actually, I put them on my bulletin board at home but it’s the same idea). In that spirit, here’s a thank-you for your files:
When I first came to Baylor I thought I wanted to be a real estate lawyer. I didn’t even think about being a criminal lawyer. My 1L experiences (which are now a fuzzy blur about the Fourth Amendment and mens rea) did nothing to change that. But then I ended up in your Juvenile Justice class during the first quarter of my second year and the whole direction of my legal focus changed. You made us get out of the classroom and see the real world. You made us tour the local juvenile detention facility. I was so moved by those children that I went home and cried. (And, with the exception of one unfortunate PC experience, I’m not usually a crier.) I honestly don’t remember all the details I probably should have learned in Juvenile Justice but I came out of that class intrigued by criminal law and so interested in the system that I subsequently enrolled in every criminal law class this school offers, most of which were, at that time, taught by you. I did more prep work for your classes than any others (except PC) in my whole three years here. Thanks to you, I have now observed several trials and parts of trials in at least four Waco courtrooms and I have learned so much more than legal theory – I’ve seen it in action. And I’ve practiced it, too, and long before I made it into PC. More than any law that you managed to teach me, you sparked my curiosity and let me run with it. I am now completely committed to practicing criminal law and that’s all your fault. You gave me the chance to see how criminal law gives me a peek into the little “snow globes” of peoples lives and gives me a chance to help change the scenes in those snow globes. So I’ve turned down that high-dollar firm job and I’ve taken that criminal-law job that I’ll love. You changed my goals and, consequently, changed the direction of my life. Thanks.
In a former life, I was a teacher and I collected a small handful of similarly rewarding “little squares of paper jammed into my pocket” (actually, I put them on my bulletin board at home but it’s the same idea). In that spirit, here’s a thank-you for your files:
When I first came to Baylor I thought I wanted to be a real estate lawyer. I didn’t even think about being a criminal lawyer. My 1L experiences (which are now a fuzzy blur about the Fourth Amendment and mens rea) did nothing to change that. But then I ended up in your Juvenile Justice class during the first quarter of my second year and the whole direction of my legal focus changed. You made us get out of the classroom and see the real world. You made us tour the local juvenile detention facility. I was so moved by those children that I went home and cried. (And, with the exception of one unfortunate PC experience, I’m not usually a crier.) I honestly don’t remember all the details I probably should have learned in Juvenile Justice but I came out of that class intrigued by criminal law and so interested in the system that I subsequently enrolled in every criminal law class this school offers, most of which were, at that time, taught by you. I did more prep work for your classes than any others (except PC) in my whole three years here. Thanks to you, I have now observed several trials and parts of trials in at least four Waco courtrooms and I have learned so much more than legal theory – I’ve seen it in action. And I’ve practiced it, too, and long before I made it into PC. More than any law that you managed to teach me, you sparked my curiosity and let me run with it. I am now completely committed to practicing criminal law and that’s all your fault. You gave me the chance to see how criminal law gives me a peek into the little “snow globes” of peoples lives and gives me a chance to help change the scenes in those snow globes. So I’ve turned down that high-dollar firm job and I’ve taken that criminal-law job that I’ll love. You changed my goals and, consequently, changed the direction of my life. Thanks.
# posted by : 3:11 PM
: 3:11 PM
Current comments on BLS paint a terrifying picture. Limited beverage selection, limited community-space hours, nightly lockdown, humiliation, psychological abuse (the anticipation of death/pc is worse than death/pc itself), few businesses willing to hire those who have been released. You, Osler, are no more than a guard in an prison. Don't tease them with hope, it only makes the time served more painful. But perhaps we can find the solution in Texas prison history. Perhaps the solution to the low morale is to have prison/BLS rodeos. The inmates reflect on those times as being their best times behind bars. A Baylor spin could be bear wrestling. Whatever the solution, the greedy behavior with the Dr. Pepper floats must stop immediately.
I am a new 1L, and, honestly, I can attest to what one of the other posters has said. Upon telling an alum of BLS that I was coming here, I was told-- do not go there-- it is like a prison, you will be miserable, hate life, the Profs are sadistic, etc. One of my professors in perticular was singled out as being as bad as some of the older Profs- "sadistic". However, that professr has since become one of my favorites--- not that I have alot of basis of comparison-- and I am enjoying having higher expectations placed upon me-- at least until I flunk out after this quarter...if I survive, I stand by my praise of the hardcore Socratic method of the Professors here.
# posted by : 8:03 PM
: 8:03 PM
Three things:
(a) 12:11, wow, the only things you remember about 1L are mens rea and 4th amendment? I guess Prof. Crim Law's repetition really causes it to stick.
(b) What is law day?
(c) I wanna echo the other 1L's comments about the profs. The first year profs are not bad at all. Perhaps it's because we're the first class that hasn't had the Trail-Wilson-Essary combo, but my experiences with the profs have been amazing. To highlight a few examples:
Prof. Crim Law - yeah, he likes to talk...but come on, if you didn't come out of that class learning AR/MR/Causation like the back of your hand, I have good grounds to doubt your mental competancy.
Prof. Torts II - What I like about this guy is that he's one of the nicest and funniest people around. At the same time, he's all business. He kicks people out when they need to be kicked out. He gets through the material efficiently and teaches us what we need to know. Whoever made the hiring decision on this guy -- kudos.
I am slightly confused by the other comments saying the professors were evil and unapproachable. Prof. Property and Prof. Contracts are anything but unapproachable. Prof. Contracts may be part of the axis of evil, but that's only because he's got a bleeding heart and the current presidential administration doesn't like them types.
Seriously, even Prof. Civ Pro is sorta approachable. With Civ Pro, (a) he either really cares about the class as a whole or (b) he's using his jedi trial lawyer mind tricks on us.
I dunno -- maybe there are some really evil 2L and PC prof's that give people this idea (another reason PC = scary)? But generally, we've got an amazing set.
Contrast this to a friend of mine who attends a school that's ranked much higher than Baylor. I get complaints day in and day out from this guy about how horrible his professors are -- they don't know how to control the class and they spend all their time talking about theory and scoff at practical application of the law (and then expect you to know how to fully apply it on the final)....He says the "policy" and "theory" they teach are pretty obvious and he wishes that he didn't have to teach himself so much of the law.
So...in terms of first year professors we have it good.
(a) 12:11, wow, the only things you remember about 1L are mens rea and 4th amendment? I guess Prof. Crim Law's repetition really causes it to stick.
(b) What is law day?
(c) I wanna echo the other 1L's comments about the profs. The first year profs are not bad at all. Perhaps it's because we're the first class that hasn't had the Trail-Wilson-Essary combo, but my experiences with the profs have been amazing. To highlight a few examples:
Prof. Crim Law - yeah, he likes to talk...but come on, if you didn't come out of that class learning AR/MR/Causation like the back of your hand, I have good grounds to doubt your mental competancy.
Prof. Torts II - What I like about this guy is that he's one of the nicest and funniest people around. At the same time, he's all business. He kicks people out when they need to be kicked out. He gets through the material efficiently and teaches us what we need to know. Whoever made the hiring decision on this guy -- kudos.
I am slightly confused by the other comments saying the professors were evil and unapproachable. Prof. Property and Prof. Contracts are anything but unapproachable. Prof. Contracts may be part of the axis of evil, but that's only because he's got a bleeding heart and the current presidential administration doesn't like them types.
Seriously, even Prof. Civ Pro is sorta approachable. With Civ Pro, (a) he either really cares about the class as a whole or (b) he's using his jedi trial lawyer mind tricks on us.
I dunno -- maybe there are some really evil 2L and PC prof's that give people this idea (another reason PC = scary)? But generally, we've got an amazing set.
Contrast this to a friend of mine who attends a school that's ranked much higher than Baylor. I get complaints day in and day out from this guy about how horrible his professors are -- they don't know how to control the class and they spend all their time talking about theory and scoff at practical application of the law (and then expect you to know how to fully apply it on the final)....He says the "policy" and "theory" they teach are pretty obvious and he wishes that he didn't have to teach himself so much of the law.
So...in terms of first year professors we have it good.
# posted by : 11:02 PM
: 11:02 PM
Prof. Osler,
I ran into a Baylor Law alum this summer who graduated sometime in the 80s.
She told me that out of her group of friends, not one, aside from herself became trial lawyers. The reason: their view on what a trial was like was based on PC, and since their PC expereince was so horrible they thought being a trial lawyer would be horrible- in essence PC unmade them trial lawyers.
Now of course that is one person and her "group" of friends, and is in no way representative of all Baylor alums, but at the same time it is a powerful example of how PC impacts our futures.
What is also unfortunate is that I asked her if she had been back to see the new building, to which she responded that she did not know there was a new building since she in no way desired to keep up with what was going on at BLS.
I think it is great to have a folder of supportive letters, lets work together to make it bigger.
I ran into a Baylor Law alum this summer who graduated sometime in the 80s.
She told me that out of her group of friends, not one, aside from herself became trial lawyers. The reason: their view on what a trial was like was based on PC, and since their PC expereince was so horrible they thought being a trial lawyer would be horrible- in essence PC unmade them trial lawyers.
Now of course that is one person and her "group" of friends, and is in no way representative of all Baylor alums, but at the same time it is a powerful example of how PC impacts our futures.
What is also unfortunate is that I asked her if she had been back to see the new building, to which she responded that she did not know there was a new building since she in no way desired to keep up with what was going on at BLS.
I think it is great to have a folder of supportive letters, lets work together to make it bigger.
# posted by : 4:45 PM
: 4:45 PM
"Seriously, even Prof. Civ Pro is sorta approachable. With Civ Pro, (a) he either really cares about the class as a whole or (b) he's using his jedi trial lawyer mind tricks on us."
I doubt it's the latter unless your counting his practice court mini-trials... Passed the bar in July 06... clerked for a federal judge..hired as a BLS prof. in Spring 03...how many, if any, trials do you think he had in two years of practice?
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I doubt it's the latter unless your counting his practice court mini-trials... Passed the bar in July 06... clerked for a federal judge..hired as a BLS prof. in Spring 03...how many, if any, trials do you think he had in two years of practice?
# posted by : 8:37 AM
: 8:37 AM << Home
