Tuesday, July 23, 2013
The legacy of Trayvon Martin
The verdict aside, there is no doubt that a tragedy occurred. A boy was shot dead, and that's a tragedy, regardless of what else you think happened there or what should have happened in the trial. I wonder, now, what the impact of that tragedy will be on our nation.
Our recent history of making changes in the wake of tragedies is pretty thin. The only major public tragedies of the past 25 years I can think of that resulted in societal change are the Challenger disaster and 9/11. Neither of those changes, though, were very good. The Challenger disaster played a role in the end of our manned space program, and 9/11 led us to restrict our own civil liberties in the interest of security.
Tragedy is different than a mistake, though often a mistake can be identified as a source of the tragedy. We learn from mistakes (or at least hope to), but not so much from tragedies. Instead, we throw up our hands in sadness, argue, and then move on without deep reflection or meaningful shifts in policy.
Is this stasis in the face of tragedy a good or a bad thing?
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Our lack of universal revulsion to this incident is appalling. That nothing will change is even worse.
We talk about who best manipulated a hideous law: a law that was written by an industry and given to legislators in return for campaign cash, a law that was written to create a demand for guns. An incredible result for the industry. Good results for killers. Bad results for young boys walking home.
A guy, with a record of violence, who lives in a historically racist community, grabs his loaded gun, gets in his car and prowls the neighborhood. He is absolutely convinced he is in the right, because the community and the law informs him. He now is a confessed killer with a gun and would have to be described as very dangerous for anyone to confront. As in Trayvon Martin's case, one would justifiably feel in danger of one's life in George Zimmerman's presence and be forced to "stand your ground". And so it goes and goes and goes.
The cycle of violence will continue as long as long as the conversation doesn't confront the powerful monied interests.
We also can not deny that we continue to treat others differently than ourselves. Justice is not even handed. Mark makes this point over and over, to his credit. We continue to be deeply divided racially in much of our society. Trying to deny this, in this case, is an insult to our integrity as a nation.
This is a time for all good people to be outraged and take action, not sides. Everyone gains when justice reigns.
We talk about who best manipulated a hideous law: a law that was written by an industry and given to legislators in return for campaign cash, a law that was written to create a demand for guns. An incredible result for the industry. Good results for killers. Bad results for young boys walking home.
A guy, with a record of violence, who lives in a historically racist community, grabs his loaded gun, gets in his car and prowls the neighborhood. He is absolutely convinced he is in the right, because the community and the law informs him. He now is a confessed killer with a gun and would have to be described as very dangerous for anyone to confront. As in Trayvon Martin's case, one would justifiably feel in danger of one's life in George Zimmerman's presence and be forced to "stand your ground". And so it goes and goes and goes.
The cycle of violence will continue as long as long as the conversation doesn't confront the powerful monied interests.
We also can not deny that we continue to treat others differently than ourselves. Justice is not even handed. Mark makes this point over and over, to his credit. We continue to be deeply divided racially in much of our society. Trying to deny this, in this case, is an insult to our integrity as a nation.
This is a time for all good people to be outraged and take action, not sides. Everyone gains when justice reigns.
This has been blown so far out of proportion it has become ridiculous.
Granted, he should have stayed in the car. But once out, he was attacked and then shot the man who was beating his head on the concrete.
A jury looked at the facts, which had nothing to do with race., and agreed that his actions were legal, so they did their duty and acquitted him.
If not for the professionally indignant individuals who make a living stirring up racial strife, this would have been a routine case. If both had been either black or both white, it wouldn't have been a blurb on the back page.
Justice did prevail, whether we like it or not - and Florida law was followed.
Lee
Granted, he should have stayed in the car. But once out, he was attacked and then shot the man who was beating his head on the concrete.
A jury looked at the facts, which had nothing to do with race., and agreed that his actions were legal, so they did their duty and acquitted him.
If not for the professionally indignant individuals who make a living stirring up racial strife, this would have been a routine case. If both had been either black or both white, it wouldn't have been a blurb on the back page.
Justice did prevail, whether we like it or not - and Florida law was followed.
Lee
# posted by 
: 11:04 AM
: 11:04 AM
Stasis in the face of tragedy is a bad thing because it keeps from healing the wound tragedy always inflicts. Stasis in the face of the Trayvon Martin tragedy is reprehensible. It is reprehensible because it perpetuates a shameful vicious circle of racism that by now should have been left behind in those dark days of history. Instead history repeats itself over and over and the wound remains hopelessly open. Just after the verdict was announced, on the A train coming back from the Far Rockaway beach I sat next to two black kids, the girl was an intern at some office in Manhattan and the boy was on vacation from college. But that was just tangential information I eavesdropped on…most of the painfully articulated discussion was around The Verdict. The “painful articulation” part is a description of my sense of what I got to listen to…an underlying sense of outraged resignation. Because in spite of talk of going to organized rallies and planning to speak out, the conclusion the girl uttered was in a tone I cannot even describe, a statement I found sad and disquieting “it’s not anything new or anything we didn’t see coming” …and so the wound bleeds messily into the next generation.
One more thing...apart from ridiculous parsing of a ridiculous law, I honestly find talk about “he should have stayed in the car or he should have done this or he should have done that” truly offensive…offensive to the basic decency of a civilized human being, one that in this day and age only visits a cave.
One more thing...apart from ridiculous parsing of a ridiculous law, I honestly find talk about “he should have stayed in the car or he should have done this or he should have done that” truly offensive…offensive to the basic decency of a civilized human being, one that in this day and age only visits a cave.
Marta; Thank you. Decency and justice are also victims too often. Lee's comments left me less hopeful. There seems to be a hole where the country's soul should be. The only witness to counter George Zimmerman claim of being beaten was shot in the chest by the defendant. Lee, you have made the point the best I have heard to repeal this law. There were no witnesses to Zimmerman's injuries and no marks on the victim's hands from a fight. George Zimmerman didn't testify.
When two people are not witnessed during a conflict, the assumption can be that the killer was in fear if he is scuffed up. Therefore they are not innocent in the death but are not culpable. This is a travesty of justice. This law, as long as it is on the books, will bring nothing but grief. This grief will be disproportionately born by those of color as in the past.
Now is the time for action.
When two people are not witnessed during a conflict, the assumption can be that the killer was in fear if he is scuffed up. Therefore they are not innocent in the death but are not culpable. This is a travesty of justice. This law, as long as it is on the books, will bring nothing but grief. This grief will be disproportionately born by those of color as in the past.
Now is the time for action.
Like Marta has said, stasis in the face of tragedy is not good. But being too reactionary is not good either. An example: all the schools after the Sandy Hook shootings that demanded their schools have armed personnel to 'protect' the children. I dare say this will be deemed a great idea until in some communities the budget comes into play and it is no longer feasible.
Anon(Lee) 11:04: perhaps a good place to start is defining the meaning of a neighborhood watch? In my Tampa neighborhood it means immediate neighbors are watching out for strange activity. A young teenager (of any race) would not be seen as unusual unless he/she was walking up driveways mid-day when people aren't home. In that event the police would be called. I guess we are fortunate to live in a neighborhood where people don't lock themselves inside their homes/condos/etc... None of us would think it our responsibility to 'handle' the situation.
You are correct, the jury looked at the facts as the current law applies, and we can't do anything about the result. But we can look at why this happened and try to address the underlying issues.
What is neighborhood watch? How should a person on neighborhood watch act (what is expected protocol for the specific community)? Should they be armed? Should the neighborhood watch committee know that some of their watchers are armed and which ones? My list could go on.
Anon(Lee) 11:04: perhaps a good place to start is defining the meaning of a neighborhood watch? In my Tampa neighborhood it means immediate neighbors are watching out for strange activity. A young teenager (of any race) would not be seen as unusual unless he/she was walking up driveways mid-day when people aren't home. In that event the police would be called. I guess we are fortunate to live in a neighborhood where people don't lock themselves inside their homes/condos/etc... None of us would think it our responsibility to 'handle' the situation.
You are correct, the jury looked at the facts as the current law applies, and we can't do anything about the result. But we can look at why this happened and try to address the underlying issues.
What is neighborhood watch? How should a person on neighborhood watch act (what is expected protocol for the specific community)? Should they be armed? Should the neighborhood watch committee know that some of their watchers are armed and which ones? My list could go on.
THE TRAGEDY. A seventeen-year-old young man, unarmed, engaged in no criminal activity, and in a place he had every right to be lost his life by the hand of another man. Our collective sense of justice cries out for resolution. Someone should pay. Nobody did.
THE COMPLICATION. Frustratingly, the tragic affair turns out to be much more complicated than our initial, basic reading indicated. We now know that both parties made serious (fatal) errors in judgment that ended in a horrific and unnecessary loss of life.
THE SICKNESS. The verdict was commensurate with the facts and evidence presented in a court of law; the ensuing outrage has been the product of powerful media-driven distortions, a ubiquitous and seemingly unshakeable false narrative, and the ferocious power of people clinging so desperately to their prejudices.
THE COMPLICATION. Frustratingly, the tragic affair turns out to be much more complicated than our initial, basic reading indicated. We now know that both parties made serious (fatal) errors in judgment that ended in a horrific and unnecessary loss of life.
THE SICKNESS. The verdict was commensurate with the facts and evidence presented in a court of law; the ensuing outrage has been the product of powerful media-driven distortions, a ubiquitous and seemingly unshakeable false narrative, and the ferocious power of people clinging so desperately to their prejudices.
WF; Please ,please don't keep referring to the facts and evidence presented in this case. The prosecution didn't have facts or evidence nor did the defense. This trial only was about the killer having a persuasive story to tell about his fear for his life. He was well informed before he took action that the law allowed him to claim self defense.
Without this law George Zimmerman likely would not have sought out and killed a child. The jury found there were no fatal mistakes or George would be in the clink. The law does not see killing someone a mistake in judgement.
The law is unjust and is a fatal mistake.
The idea that Trayvon Martin made a fatal mistake and was in anyway responsible for his own death makes me fear for all our young children and grandchildren who venture out of their homes.. Shame on you WF.
WF; What are the prejudices that people opposed to unjust laws are clinging to? What is the seemingly unshakeable false narrative you refer to? What are the media driven distortions? And, where is the ferocious power of the people?
The Florida law was followed and prevailed. Justice did not prevail!
WF. Please respond.
I hope you will become part of the ferocious power of the people and work to undo a terrible, unjust and dangerous law, a law that has as it's only purpose more profits for gun manufacturers.
Without this law George Zimmerman likely would not have sought out and killed a child. The jury found there were no fatal mistakes or George would be in the clink. The law does not see killing someone a mistake in judgement.
The law is unjust and is a fatal mistake.
The idea that Trayvon Martin made a fatal mistake and was in anyway responsible for his own death makes me fear for all our young children and grandchildren who venture out of their homes.. Shame on you WF.
WF; What are the prejudices that people opposed to unjust laws are clinging to? What is the seemingly unshakeable false narrative you refer to? What are the media driven distortions? And, where is the ferocious power of the people?
The Florida law was followed and prevailed. Justice did not prevail!
WF. Please respond.
I hope you will become part of the ferocious power of the people and work to undo a terrible, unjust and dangerous law, a law that has as it's only purpose more profits for gun manufacturers.
""Please, please don't keep referring to the facts and evidence in this case."
The "outrage" of the steets, some media and the professional activists is over the result in the face of "the facts and evidence."
I understand that you do not agree with the law. OK. I wouldn't presume to know, but have you done any "soul searching" lately, and are you sure your "outrage" is not grounded in your assumption that when Zimmerman shot, it was because you believe he had a depraved mind and a prejudice against blacks, and not because he may have been in fear of his life?
I think Waco Farmer and Anonymous-the other one-are right. I think you are wrong. But, I am not outraaged by what some have called the outrageous behavior of the media and the professional rabble rousers. And, I do not think that "outrage" or judgments such as,"Our lack of universal revulsion to this incident is appalling," are appealing or persuasive arguments for you stance on the law. I would not say, however I might or not believe it, that your comment itself is itself "outrageous." I just don't think it , and your antipathy to "monied iinterests" apt to serve you or your cause well.
It is one thing to think an idea and a law to be wrong. It is another to require others to agree with you at risk of being damned as "racist" or in the thrall of others.
Now is the time for all "good" people to reason this matter out, not be or pretend to be outraged.
But, that's just my opinion.64 altsBD
The "outrage" of the steets, some media and the professional activists is over the result in the face of "the facts and evidence."
I understand that you do not agree with the law. OK. I wouldn't presume to know, but have you done any "soul searching" lately, and are you sure your "outrage" is not grounded in your assumption that when Zimmerman shot, it was because you believe he had a depraved mind and a prejudice against blacks, and not because he may have been in fear of his life?
I think Waco Farmer and Anonymous-the other one-are right. I think you are wrong. But, I am not outraaged by what some have called the outrageous behavior of the media and the professional rabble rousers. And, I do not think that "outrage" or judgments such as,"Our lack of universal revulsion to this incident is appalling," are appealing or persuasive arguments for you stance on the law. I would not say, however I might or not believe it, that your comment itself is itself "outrageous." I just don't think it , and your antipathy to "monied iinterests" apt to serve you or your cause well.
It is one thing to think an idea and a law to be wrong. It is another to require others to agree with you at risk of being damned as "racist" or in the thrall of others.
Now is the time for all "good" people to reason this matter out, not be or pretend to be outraged.
But, that's just my opinion.64 altsBD
# posted by : 8:01 PM
: 8:01 PM
Anon 8:01 PM, has it ever crossed your mind that Zimmerman may have been in fear for his life PRECISELY because he was prejudiced against blacks? And by the way, a preemptive mention of the risk of your being deemed as racist is moot, as you are after all “64alt BD”
Oh, my! Sure didn't expect that, Marta.
Yes, it and a lot of things have crossed my mind about this case over the last 17 months, but in the absence of evidence to support the proposition that Z. was prejudiced, I have adopted the view held by the prosecution and from reports, even the FBI field investigators who looked at the matter in the months prior to trial, and have concluded that race was not a factor. Knowing less about the case than they, I have given this question no serious consideration since the case went to the jury. I am open to a change of mind should the DOJ charge the man with a civil rights violation and go on to prove it.
As for your charge that I am a racist...well, I now see why "the facts and the evidence,"or the lack of it, have little effect on some.
I'm sorry you feel the way you do, sorrier still if anything in my post gave you that impression. For the life of me, although on rereading I see grammatical and punctuation errors, for which I apologize, I do not see anything in it to have prompted your remark.
Marta, I have only visited this site recenty, and dared to post only because I thought its contributors were not given to the ad hominem arguments which are the hallmarks of so many other blogs. I see that I was mistaken.
All the best.
anon
64altBD
Yes, it and a lot of things have crossed my mind about this case over the last 17 months, but in the absence of evidence to support the proposition that Z. was prejudiced, I have adopted the view held by the prosecution and from reports, even the FBI field investigators who looked at the matter in the months prior to trial, and have concluded that race was not a factor. Knowing less about the case than they, I have given this question no serious consideration since the case went to the jury. I am open to a change of mind should the DOJ charge the man with a civil rights violation and go on to prove it.
As for your charge that I am a racist...well, I now see why "the facts and the evidence,"or the lack of it, have little effect on some.
I'm sorry you feel the way you do, sorrier still if anything in my post gave you that impression. For the life of me, although on rereading I see grammatical and punctuation errors, for which I apologize, I do not see anything in it to have prompted your remark.
Marta, I have only visited this site recenty, and dared to post only because I thought its contributors were not given to the ad hominem arguments which are the hallmarks of so many other blogs. I see that I was mistaken.
All the best.
anon
64altBD
# posted by : 11:40 PM
: 11:40 PM
64altBD, as I am looking at the one phrase you read as an accusation I see no sign, word or punctuation that so quickly prompts you to such an interpretation. If it were an accusatory hint in that phrase it would be directed at the anonymous backing of your opinions. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I believe the more angles to look at an issue the clearer the picture, but when opinions are blurred by anonymity they sort of lose the sought perspective.
Okay. Wow. This incendiary case has us all intensely engaged. As Mark suggested, the unfortunate legacy of Trayvon Martin may be that his death merely contributed to our extreme cultural polarization. Mea Culpa.
Serious issues here. As was said more than a century ago, "the problem of [our time] is the problem of the color-line." As a person who has spent my whole life considering the question of "race in America," I firmly believe this dilemma of reconciling ourselves to (and in) a multiracial nation remains one of the defining challenges (along with a handful of issues: sustainability, federalism, education, etc) that will dictate our success as a people over the course of the onrushing century. Good luck to us.
Serious issues here. As was said more than a century ago, "the problem of [our time] is the problem of the color-line." As a person who has spent my whole life considering the question of "race in America," I firmly believe this dilemma of reconciling ourselves to (and in) a multiracial nation remains one of the defining challenges (along with a handful of issues: sustainability, federalism, education, etc) that will dictate our success as a people over the course of the onrushing century. Good luck to us.
When ALEC drew up and distributed the stand your ground legislation for the gun industry I was outraged along with many corporate sponsors of ALEC, including Walmart who quit ALEC.
My outrage did not begin with Trayvon Martin's death as a result of the law, and it will not end until this ill conceived law disappears.
No one on this blog has defended the law or suggested that the law makes any sense. Thank you.
To date this law has been implemented and applied disproportionately along racial lines. I have lived among racist my whole life. I have lived among victims of racism. These are the darkest times in my memory.The judge along with the Supreme Court, Lee, WF, are asking us not to acknowledge racial injustice.
Again WF please respond to my questions.
I think the legacy of Trayvon Martin's death will be clarity. We may get some light to shine on our broken system of justice and it's effect on the innocent victims of this unjust system
My outrage did not begin with Trayvon Martin's death as a result of the law, and it will not end until this ill conceived law disappears.
No one on this blog has defended the law or suggested that the law makes any sense. Thank you.
To date this law has been implemented and applied disproportionately along racial lines. I have lived among racist my whole life. I have lived among victims of racism. These are the darkest times in my memory.The judge along with the Supreme Court, Lee, WF, are asking us not to acknowledge racial injustice.
Again WF please respond to my questions.
I think the legacy of Trayvon Martin's death will be clarity. We may get some light to shine on our broken system of justice and it's effect on the innocent victims of this unjust system
For those unfamiliar with what ALEC is...
ALEC = American Legislative Exchange Council
definitions from www.alec.org: Nonpartisan individual membership organization of state legislators which favors federalism and conservative public policy solutions.
ALEC = American Legislative Exchange Council
definitions from www.alec.org: Nonpartisan individual membership organization of state legislators which favors federalism and conservative public policy solutions.
John -
This law, and the Castle Doctrine, make perfect sense! I have the right to defend myself and my property if they are endangered. Our founding fathers made sure of that in the Bill of Rights.
I stated that Zimmerman made a serious error in leaving his car after the dispatcher told him to wait there for the police. However, once attacked, he had as the jury confirmed, the right to defend himself.
"THE SICKNESS. The verdict was commensurate with the facts and evidence presented in a court of law; the ensuing outrage has been the product of powerful media-driven distortions, a ubiquitous and seemingly unshakeable false narrative, and the ferocious power of people clinging so desperately to their prejudices."
I don't agree with WF all the time, but this is spot on.
Once again, this legally had nothing to do with race!!!
The more guns are banned, the higher the crime rate. reference: the FBI reports on crime levels. These are available on line as a public record.
The term "racist" has been used to brand anyone who tries to be rational about this incident.
"It is one thing to think an idea and a law to be wrong. It is another to require others to agree with you at risk of being damned as "racist" or in the thrall of others." 64altBD Well said!
Lee
This law, and the Castle Doctrine, make perfect sense! I have the right to defend myself and my property if they are endangered. Our founding fathers made sure of that in the Bill of Rights.
I stated that Zimmerman made a serious error in leaving his car after the dispatcher told him to wait there for the police. However, once attacked, he had as the jury confirmed, the right to defend himself.
"THE SICKNESS. The verdict was commensurate with the facts and evidence presented in a court of law; the ensuing outrage has been the product of powerful media-driven distortions, a ubiquitous and seemingly unshakeable false narrative, and the ferocious power of people clinging so desperately to their prejudices."
I don't agree with WF all the time, but this is spot on.
Once again, this legally had nothing to do with race!!!
The more guns are banned, the higher the crime rate. reference: the FBI reports on crime levels. These are available on line as a public record.
The term "racist" has been used to brand anyone who tries to be rational about this incident.
"It is one thing to think an idea and a law to be wrong. It is another to require others to agree with you at risk of being damned as "racist" or in the thrall of others." 64altBD Well said!
Lee
# posted by : 2:13 PM
: 2:13 PM
A whole lot has changed from the days of our founding fathers...IPLawguy once made a pretty good argument on a few inalienable rights that are still in the Bill of Rights and in the genetic code of many Americans. But those very rights are a lot more alienable these days and I'm afraid, a lot more mutable.
I don't know where you live Lee, but where I live, every single morning I go to work cops have the right to stop me, ask to look through my personal belongings and offer me no reason whatsoever.
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I don't know where you live Lee, but where I live, every single morning I go to work cops have the right to stop me, ask to look through my personal belongings and offer me no reason whatsoever.
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