Saturday, January 26, 2013
Why don't the best college players become the best pro players?
A few weeks ago, in the course of talking about vocation, I noted that a number of great pro quarterbacks were something less than big-conference stars in college-- a group that includes Kurt Warner, who went to Northern Iowa, while Tony Romo qb'd at Eastern Illinois and wasn't drafted, Joe Flacco emerged from the University of Delaware, and Ben Roethlisberger played at Miami-- the one in Oxford, Ohio, not Florida. In the Super Bowl, we'll be watching 49er QB Colin Kaepernick, who played for the University of Nevada.
Meanwhile, the more highly-recruited guys emerging from dozens of big-time schools wash out.
This reflection was spurred by the mention of Michigan State basketball player Mateen Cleeves, who was a 3-time all-American and led his team to the national championship. He dominated the Big Ten. In the pros, though, he played sparingly for five different teams before falling into the D-League, where he played for the Bakersfield Jam and some team in Fayetteville. There are dozens of others like him in basketball, as well.
Why do you think this is?
Meanwhile, the more highly-recruited guys emerging from dozens of big-time schools wash out.
This reflection was spurred by the mention of Michigan State basketball player Mateen Cleeves, who was a 3-time all-American and led his team to the national championship. He dominated the Big Ten. In the pros, though, he played sparingly for five different teams before falling into the D-League, where he played for the Bakersfield Jam and some team in Fayetteville. There are dozens of others like him in basketball, as well.
Why do you think this is?
Comments:
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How about a real simple (maybe even facile) / first blush reaction?
Eighteen tells us a thoroughly incomplete story about a person's potential.
Did Abraham Lincoln or Ronald Reagan look like presidential timber at eighteen years of age?
Or how many high school valedictorians have gone on to be CEOs, innovators, and/or pioneers in their field? Probably a great number--but probably, also, there were a great number of great leaders who looked less than spectacular at eighteen.
The race is long, and the prize does not always go to the swiftest--or the runner first out of the blocks.
Eighteen tells us a thoroughly incomplete story about a person's potential.
Did Abraham Lincoln or Ronald Reagan look like presidential timber at eighteen years of age?
Or how many high school valedictorians have gone on to be CEOs, innovators, and/or pioneers in their field? Probably a great number--but probably, also, there were a great number of great leaders who looked less than spectacular at eighteen.
The race is long, and the prize does not always go to the swiftest--or the runner first out of the blocks.
That was my conclusion in the earlier post I linked, too, actually-- that people attain their full abilities at different points. There, I was arguing that the academy fails to recognize this.
Aha. Glad we agree and sorry to spill so much ink making a point you made better and more succinctly. Let me add this then: perhaps we should not worry too much about early bloomers dominating academia b/c academia is not all that essential in the real world. We need good people providing building blocks to life in the formative years of education--but perhaps it is a very good thing that the Colin Kaepernicks of the world are not teaching undergrads or even law school. They are much better off disrupting the real world. I am always mindful of the old saw: teachers teach because they cannot do. You, of course, are one of the great exceptions to that old rule.
Thank you! Though I think my highest and best use is teaching. Very many of the people I taught about criminal law are better at it than I was.
I think, too, that we have very odd filters to success in place, which is one reason they so often fail to predict success. For example, to become a partner at a big law firm you need to have been a successful associate, but those two jobs (at least at the epitome of each) have very different skill sets-- the associate does long hours of analysis and writing, while the partner needs people skills and the ability to win business.
I think, too, that we have very odd filters to success in place, which is one reason they so often fail to predict success. For example, to become a partner at a big law firm you need to have been a successful associate, but those two jobs (at least at the epitome of each) have very different skill sets-- the associate does long hours of analysis and writing, while the partner needs people skills and the ability to win business.
Calling "BS" on Waco Farmer. Teachers teach because they can do, not because they can't. That old adage was written by some disgruntled student who probably failed at everything and blamed, of course, the teacher. Teachers are highly capable individuals. Your "old rule" is no rule at all.
Hey, now! We are all teachers here (that is me, WF, and the Medievalist), and I'm pretty sure that WF meant that as a bit of self-deprecating humor.
By the way, Mr. Medievalist, sir, we are enjoying a gorgeous cold snap here in Minnesota. The ice rinks are perfect, the fireplaces cozy, and all is right with the Northern World.
By the way, Mr. Medievalist, sir, we are enjoying a gorgeous cold snap here in Minnesota. The ice rinks are perfect, the fireplaces cozy, and all is right with the Northern World.
I am totally envious of your ice and snow. We have creepy warm and humid in Waco, which for me is never very comfortable. I apologize to WF and the readers for my outburst, but teachers too often get a bad rap--summer vacation, whathaveyou, but teachers work very hard and our society will sing praises for a pro-quarterback who has particular physical and mental gifts, but will despise teachers who slog along everyday, despised by parents, students, and the public in general--none of whom know how hard teachers really work and how much they actually contribute to this crazy place we call the world.
On the other hand, I am totally envious of your good ice, the cold weather, and snow. Enjoy!
On the other hand, I am totally envious of your good ice, the cold weather, and snow. Enjoy!
Good to know, Mark. I love teachers. Teachers are very important. But it would be a horrible waste of resources if your students weren't turning out to be better lawyers than you were. The "market" has it just about right in re the place of teachers in the grand order of things. We are important role players in society, but we are mostly creating space for the heroics of our more talented teammates.
For the Medievalist:
Thank you for your so-called outburst. Certainly no offense taken. Good teachers taught me to value the opinion of others, always knowing that reasonable people can disagree.
I am just saying that there is a "hero" fantasy in which many teachers like to indulge. But, in truth, we are not game changers generally. We are much more akin to the guards, tackles, tight ends, and defenders who slog through the trenches. Sure, we open up some holes--but the real artistry happens downfield. Adrian Peterson is indebted to his lineman--but he is who he is who is because of his talent and drive. Our students are great because of who they are not because of who we are.
And there has never been an offensive lineman who would not have traded places with the QB.
Thank you for your so-called outburst. Certainly no offense taken. Good teachers taught me to value the opinion of others, always knowing that reasonable people can disagree.
I am just saying that there is a "hero" fantasy in which many teachers like to indulge. But, in truth, we are not game changers generally. We are much more akin to the guards, tackles, tight ends, and defenders who slog through the trenches. Sure, we open up some holes--but the real artistry happens downfield. Adrian Peterson is indebted to his lineman--but he is who he is who is because of his talent and drive. Our students are great because of who they are not because of who we are.
And there has never been an offensive lineman who would not have traded places with the QB.
i, too, am immensely green with envy at your snow and ice.
pond hockey... maybe the greatest thing ever.
pond hockey... maybe the greatest thing ever.
# posted by 
: 8:13 PM
: 8:13 PM
An open mind and eyes willing to 'see' offer each one of us an opportunity to be 'student' and 'teacher' each day. And opportunity to sit quietly and 'listen' is one of life's greatest joys - It doesn't get much better than that. . .
Except on the 'pond' recently, where I am - all too often - 'schooled' by younger and younger boys and girls each time I lace-em-up. . .
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Except on the 'pond' recently, where I am - all too often - 'schooled' by younger and younger boys and girls each time I lace-em-up. . .
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