Osler's Razor

I asked my sister the same question last week, when she, as member of the Board of the United Methodist Women, went one afternoon last week in NYC to "be in solidarity" with the Wall Street Protestors.

Or, I should say, I asked my brother that question, as he reported to me that she was so engaged.

I admire my sister's egalitarian and compassionate impulses, and support them.

That said, I wonder, as you do, what the Wall Street Protestors are about. I suspect that their goal (and aimlessly, perhaps, the goal of the UMW in this instance) is that someone needs to "stick it to the Man". "Speak truth to power", they like to say. And speaking truth to power is certainly WWJD. But the Wall Street Protestors have never adequately (for me, at least) identified who the powers are to whom they speak, or even what they have to say to power, and direct questions propounded to the protestors have produced uncertain answers to that question.

Thus, I fear that they need leadership which might articulate what they are about, and we are short on prophets in these days. I thought that last week as I studied Isaiah and Jeremiah, and wondered who our prophets today might be. I could not think of any.

MLK, we miss you.
 

Rich people aren't good at math. They thought they could continually screw over the middle class in their race to make the USA an oligarchy. They forgot there are more of us than them. OWS is there to remind them how they got wealthy in the first place. Don't let corporate-run media influence your view. Look at their blogs, Twitters and Tumblrs. They know what they want and what needs to be done. But they get no good press in the US.
 

Anon 1:17, can you recommend a blog?
 

I think this is a lot more than some unemployed people being "vaguely mad at rich people."

Here are a couple of things that might help, Mark:

Alan Grayson does a pretty good job explaining what the OWS folk are concerned with here:http://2politicaljunkies.blogspot.com/2011/10/alan-grayson-explains-occupy-wall.html

And here, Krugman explains a bit of how they are helping refocus attention:http://www.politicususa.com/en/paul-krugman-occupy-wall-street
 

My personal observations on OWS. It seems to be getting more organized. Asembling on Wall Street is much easier than trying to get a large enough group of people to stand in front of corporate headquarters of the Fortune 500 businesses around the country. Wall Street is a symbolic place. These companies are reaping profits, cutting US jobs and moving them overseas.

As a little guy/gal who owns stock I can assure you that I don't reap many benefits. There are no big dividends and owning stock is risky. It is not a get rich quick scheme. The hedgefunds of the world who buy and sell shares with no real rules are beneficiaries. It use to be that the little guy/gal was proud to invest in US corporations through stock ownership.

Now I struggle with the pop up demonstrations around the country as mostly they seem to assemble in front of the State Capital buildings.
 

Christine: my sense is that you are not right about location and that the protesters largely are assembling in front of banks, not state capital buildings.
The only ones I've physically seen were those in Appleton Wisconsin, congregated in front of Chase Bank. But what I've read of e.g. Occupy Seattle and a lot of other cities is that it is banks not government buildings that are a gathering point.
 

Thanks, Susan- I will check those out.
 

Four observations of OWS:

1.) I was looking at pictures on the "we are the 99%" website, and I found one where a woman complained about student debt, no money, and she had to strip to support herself. The final line was, "I have a [bachelor of fine arts] degree. WTF?" Yes, you spent tens of thousands of dollars on your theatre degree and you're having trouble finding a job, and that is wall street's fault. Makes total sense.

2.) I saw one of the OWS protesters interviewed, and he said that he was having lots of sex at the OWS protest in NYC. He said he was getting lucky because he had constructed a box fort that could provide shelter, especially when it rained, and he didn't allow men in. I figure there is some industrious hippie next door that will build a larger, or better, box fort, once he realizes that he can get girls. Then another one will go even bigger. Then eventually someone will realize they could build a monstorous box fort and get all the cool hippie girls they wanted if they were the one supplying the boxes to the other hippies, so they will become the box salesperson. And thus, the circle of life.

3.) The number one complaint I hear from these hippies is about student debt. Can someone explain to me what these people want. You wanted to go to college, wanted to go to a good school, you couldn't afford it, you accepted money from somebody else to make that happen, now you have to pay them back. Doesn't exactly sound like slavery or oppression, sounds like they want to be absolved of responsibility.

4.) Tom Morello went to the protests. Go to his website, there are links to iTunes and Amazon on the front page. Because Apple and Amazon aren't huge corporations or anything. And Rage Against the Machine is signed to a subsidiary label of Sony. So, in this case, the revolution will both be televised and will make some very large companies lots of money.

No, this will not gain any traction. The hippies will disperse when Phish goes out on tour, and the middle and upper middle class white kids will disperse whenever mommy and daddy tell them it is time to stop.
 

I think a big difference between the Tea Party and OWS is that eventually the Tea Party got (somewhat) organized and started to participate in the traditional political process. They raised money. They backed candidates. They held debates. They influenced the current system.

OWS doesn't have any of that yet. The way things are going, they may never have it. They're basically a big sit in/protest march. I'm all about people exercising their First Amendment right to assemble. But ultimately, they need some sort of demands/goals. "We'll get off the street when you ______." I'm just not sure anyone in or out of the OWS movement knows what to fill in the blank with. What do they want?

My favorite thing to come out of the OWS movement is this Kansas Jayhawks protestor at Occupy Denver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaohFnBHtkk&feature=player_embedded
 

@ Susan ~ In Raleigh I saw protesters in front of the state capital (8:30pm), no banks in site. But then we have a lot to protest in NC right now and it could have been totally unrelated to OWS.
 

@RRL-excellent points, and thanks for the great morning laugh. Maybe you could borrow Mark's box after Halloween and sellit to one of these guys. (although I'm not sure it will be big enough to have sex in, unless you are a smurf).
 

I can't believe it, but I do agree with some of RRL's analysis. Many of us older types (late 30's and 40's) also had to borrow lots of money to go to college/grad school. We lived at home, saved our money, and did not have expensive cars, vacations, and every new electronic gizmo (G-d I sound like one of the old entitlement Tea Party people now!)that came along. We worked hard to pay off our loans, while putting off other things like getting married and starting families, because life requries sacrifice and involves opportunity costs.

Sure, many of the Wall Stret folks are souless criminals.

Nonethelesss, I am struck by the sense of entitlement which so many Baby Boomers and their children, who are at the heart of the OWS protests, feel. The sense of entitlement and racism of the Tea Party is equally as baffling and disturbing to me.

What ever happened to social solidarity and all of us rolling up our sleeves? What ever happened to a common acknoweldgment that no one is perfect, but no one is entitled to a thing, yet we all must contribute humanly and reasonably to the common good?

Scott Davis
 

What makes sense about the much mentioned OWS 99% is exactly that--- 99% is a vast span. Homogeneous is not the first thing that comes to mind for anything 99% and there’s certainly plenty of room for incoherence in 99%, the only sure thing about 99% is that it reflects majority for at least one denominator. The student loan whiners may have a point in that they got up to their eyeballs in loans from banks so they can buy themselves an education, that would get them a job and perhaps start living their own [not mommy and daddy’s] American dream. Only the dream looks more like a nightmare, for the jobs are NOT MADE in USA and going back to live with mommy and daddy is not merely lame, it is spirit crushing. To lift that up, whats wrong with a little whining at some incoherent demonstration, it's not like anybody's hiring much these days? As for why on earth buying a liberal arts education? Because creativity drives civilization, creativity is what put USA on the map, the incredible dare to do and create stuff that others didn’t even dream of. Plus just being industrious doesn’t cut it. Look at China, they manufacture everybody’s good ideas and occasionally steal those good ideas and manufacture cheap knock-offs. Original ideas happen in societies that promote original thinking and yes, that implies getting in debt up to your eyeballs for an Arts and Sciences degree. Why the sneer at an MFA may I ask?
 

Dear Anon. 10:35,

I am not lending my box to anyone so that their smurf can have sex in it.

Love,
Mark

ps, this is the first time I have ever made that statement.
 

"Why the sneer at an MFA may I ask?"

First, I don't sneer at a fine arts degree. You want to spend 4 years studying music, art, theatre, whatever, I'm fine with it. But when you graduate you also have to accept the limited opportunities that may be available to you in your chosen field. You wanna be a starving artist, good for you. You want me to feel bad for you, nope.

Second, the thing is it is a luxury to go to school and study art, or philosophy, or womens studies, or any of those liberal arts degrees. You know what I don't see, I don't see anybody who is holding up a sign that says, "I went to school, got a mechanical engineering degree, and now nobody will hire me." Could insert any number of hard sciences in that spot. But these kids want their parents' livelihood without getting the necessary education or putting in the work. They want it given to them.

Anyways, I'm going to go back to occupying my office.
 

It's nice to know I'm not the only one who doesn't understand their motives. I just can't help but think if some of them put this much energy into work or a corporation they could be one of the BIG RICH. And you know what? Then they wouldn't someone taking all of their money. It's no ones fault but their own in America if they don't succeed.
 

RRL your implication there are no or hardly any mechanical engineers unemployed in America today is based on what (aside from the fact you haven't spotted one in the hippie pile)?
 

The limited opportunities in arts and science fields reflect upon the state of the economy. And it is safe to say the state of the economy cannot be attributed to young Americans being all about entitlements and no work.
 

Can I find out more about this box?
 

Marta - I didn't say there weren't any unemployed mechanical engineers, and my argument that they are doing better in this job market is anecdotal. So, that may be a fair criticism.

Still, I have no doubt someone with an engineering degree is having an easier time finding a job than someone with a theatre degree. You could prove me wrong though I suppose.
 

Dear IPLawSmurf,

You can't use my box. It is for my Halloween costume, and I wear it on my head, so you can't use it for any of your "activities."

Also, a colleague reminds me that there is only one female smurf, named "Smurfette." So... well, never mind. I don't even want to know. Just not in my box, ok?

Love,
Mark
 

Also, I found some answers to my content questions here. It's starting to make more sense to me.
 

RRL I could only prove you wrong for someone having an easier time finding a job with a theater degree than an engineering degree if they looked for a job in NYC. You are probably right if that were the case in Detroit, say... or some other industry inclined area.
 

Osler, just don't let the Herpes Monkey get in your box.
 

You people make me laugh.

But not as hard as this- On Morning Edition this morning "One has a sign with the drawing of a smiling pig that says, 'Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad.'" This may actually be a counter protester, like the guys at the Tea Party protests with the : "Magnets - How do they work?" sign. But whether protest or counter protest, I enjoy a good laugh.

To paraphrase the article I read this morning summarizing last night's debate, Ron Paul says he's against the government giving people money, but if you are going to give people money, give it to the poor people who need it.

That's my inclination. Well, first give it to me. If not to me, then be fiscally responsible. if not fiscally responsible, then give it to poor people. And if not to poor people, then do whatever you have to do to stave off an entire meltdown of our financial system.

These people have their priorities mixed up.
 

I was actually thinking about this yesterday in the bathroom at work (where I do most of my important thinking). I find any kind of grassroots movement fascinating (at my heart, I think I'm a populist) but I reached the same conclusion that you did: I don't know what they're upset about. I'm not sure they know either.

I saw a picture of some discarded signs from the protest in Time, and they seemed to be doing everything from begging for a job to accusing auto companies of engineering "machines of death."

With no real leader, I wonder how long the protesters plan on keeping the protest going. What needs to be done to make them happy, and by whom, and how? And if the answer is "everything" or "nothing", will it just end when the weather gets cold and the media gets bored -- and if it does, did it really accomplish anything?
 

Mark - Thanks for the links. At Wellstone Action efforts at local community building continue and it is encouraging to see more inclusive and positive messages coming from OWS as they seek change in the larger community.

Now if they would only remove the clenched fist from their logo...
 

Rangers! Rangers! Rangers! Rangers!
 

Are the Smurfs in the Playoffs?
 

tydlbeach----yep, if you are for the Cardinals. Go Red/(well, blue....Smurfs)!