Osler's Razor

You had to know that there'd be a Willard up in here, especially since we're up at all hours.

I'll just address a few of your cons:

#3: I think you know of a place that condenses all that down to one tacky little leaflet. We can't even tell the outsiders from the insiders any more based on book-shuffling habits. And I seem to recall offering my personal Clippy services to you if you're ever in need. "Kneel! Stand up! Sit up straight! I can't heeeear you!"

#4: You don't want to know what I call him, but I don't recommend that you do the same. Honestly, first names are just fine. The "big guy" tomorrow (today?) will be the Bishop, whose wife will undoubtedly be suspicious if you call him by a term of endearment.

You missed almost everybody's favorite pro: the booze. I don't even partake in that, but I do carry my knitting needles in a Glenfiddich container. I took up knitting for this purpose alone.

Seriously, though, one of my pros has to do with the thoughtfulness of how and why things are done, at least under my favorite priest's watch. Baptism, for example, isn't an insurance policy against damnation, but rather an adoption into God's family through a community of faith. Children are mindfully welcomed into the community and the liturgy. There are places (Episcopal and otherwise) that are sloppy in explaining this, but I've come to really appreciate the reasons behind the actions.
 

Nice job, Carrie...
You know, you are pretty much teeing it up for us here, Osler...

OK...first of all, on the Creeds...need we really have to go there again?!

Secondly, I look around my Episcopalian community and we are doing much more than just supporting wealthy prep schools. In fact, in all honesty, we support - as an Episcopalian community - MUCH more than just that. See NAW on that one as to what your church is doing...b/c I guarantee that church is reaching in breadth and depth into many other causes. To speak for my own 'home'....we can address that one on one...

Now...on the reference guides, I'll agree...you may have a point...

And 'dude' always works.

PLUS, the other thing that you left out on PROS...is being able to watch each face as they walk back to their seat after the Eucharist...each and every one with their own story and own experience. I mean, WOW...isn't that amazingly powerful?!?!

Come on, just admit it....
 

Wendy-

On the school thing, I meant within the field of education- I know that there is much good work done in other areas.

And creeds.... I can't help it.
 

True about excess reciting of creeds. Over-egging the pudding. On the other hand, given that Episcopalian Christianity is not at all anti-intellectual, the creeds stop anyone from thinking that God is comprehended (as opposed to apprehended.) At my madly expensive, private boys' school, our Chaplain said we should sit down whenever we came to anything in the creed we didn't understand. He sat down at "I" as in "I believe." His thoughtfulness, the sense of holiness and depth in the liturgy, the practice of not taking oneself too seriously, the passionate belief that all of us, if we had any integrity at all, must be committed to social justice without self-righteousness, left such an impression on me and my fellow schoolboys. I am not the only one who went on, eventually, to become a priest in this church (having been an academic scientist and university teacher en route.) I know Willard likes to be called "Your magnificence" but it's bad for him.
 

At least the Episcopal schools, at least the ones I'm familiar with, insist on intellectual rigor, behavior, grammar, and community service. These are all things that the public schools, led by Our Fearless Aggie, can't teach anymore lest they be thought racist, elitest, etc.

Thanks to Robin Hood, even the good ones are being forced into the vast mediocracy. Money has always bought better stuff - that's not going to change. It also buys wasteful ostentation, but that's not going to change, either.

As a practicing athiest, I want my grandchildren to attend the private episcopal schools. At least they will get an education, and the rest they can discard like the rest of the fairy tales when they grow up.
 

Opps! should have signed the above post -

Lee
 

In my exurban parish, your Pro #4 overrides your Con #2 in a big way. Just this morning, references were made to the teen HOPE trip (teen sweat equity to help poorer communities rebuild homes), an outreach group to a women's prison nearby, and a project to provide fully-stocked backpacks for elementary school kids in Bridgeport, Connecticut's largest (and in some ways most disadvantaged) city.

As for the Creeds, you know my feelings. But I can tell you that your having an issue with them has been a good thing for me, because I have found myself *really* thinking about each line, as I recite. And I truly appreciate it when the priest or deacon says, before we recite, "Let us affirm our faith... "
 

I feel honored, Mark, to make your list of esteemed preachers. And to play a part in your winding (or twisted?) journey into the Episcopal landscape.

Your pros and cons match up pretty well with most folks I have encountered who make the journey to Canterbury.

Since you gave me the shout out about the preaching, I decided I had better follow your blog, to see what other things you might say.

And, please do send me an invitation to your Confirmation into the Episcopal Church, when that happens.

Peace!
Jeff Fisher
 

I grew up Episcopal. My one Book of Common Prayer is more well worn than my multitude of Bibles. But I don't think I can go back.
 

1)You know I'm not wild about the creeds. I recite them because I do believe in the tenets they espouse,and I take my time with the words,and as it is possible try to get a word picture in my mind of what I am saying,especially with regards to the passion of Jesus and who he is. I don't think anyone would look down on you,or care much if you recited your own creed: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart,your soul and your mind...and the second is like unto it,You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Or,for that matter if you didn't recite the creed at all. You don't have to check your mind or your heart at the door at the Episcopal Church(as they used to advertise on posters at the airport!). I think even if you didn't believe in the virgin birth,we'd still want you. To be an Episcopalian is to be on a lifelong journey towards God. Once my son,Dallas,was mad and had his lollipop in his mouth during church and walked across the pew to get to the aisle. When I apologized to the associate rector then he said,"Renee,at least he's here." By the way,did you get home from Waco? Looked for you. See...we miss you when you're not there! Carrie,where were you...didn't want to expose Ben to 18 confirmations!!! When part of the body is missing,things feel funny. What Wendy describes is the joy I feel watching folk come back after taking communion. It is powerful,as she says,it is real. If you were a Presbyterian,you'd be drinking grape juice out of a glass thimble taken furtively from a sewing box. I was a Presbyterian,and it never felt right. Episcopalians boldly go up,warts and all,and are somehow transformed.
3) Don't worry about all the books. We don't. But if you get a chance read the Book of Common Prayer,gorgeous prayers in there. People sometimes use the offices to meditate through the day. Good stuff. We don't force people to juggle. But if you want it,it's there.Bible's there too. I sometimes follow along with the readings.
4)I call him "The Chief." Some old-fashioned people call him "Father Neil" Others "Neil."
5) Dallas went to a private school and not an Episcopal one. Every church has their own private schools,don't they? I'm sure they offer scholarships.
 

Mark, I grew up somewhat loosely in the Episcopal tradition … i.e., we did not go to church regularly, and I was not involved in youth group, acolyteing, etc., … it was the 60’s and there was too much going down in the streets in Boston those days and in the music scene … my curiosity was very much engaged in other phases of my life. In my contrarian adolescence, it also smacked too much of waspy NE social elite too capture my affection. After a great deal of spiritual searching during much of my 20’s, I had a remarkable lunch conversation with Jim Morton, (at the time) the (Episcopal) Dean of the Cathedral of St. John the Divine (NYC) while we were both in residence at the Findhorn Community in Scotland. St. John the Divine at the time was the home of Paul Haley and the Paul Winter Consort (where Missa Gaia was composed), where they had circus animals parade down the main aisle of the sanctuary on the Festival day of St. Francis of Assisi, where Zen Priests and spiritual leaders of many traditions would preach. It was a big, fascinating, spiritually inclusive tent, and Jim Morton captured my curiosity. At it’s best, the Episcopal tradition never asks you to check your mind or you doubts at the door … it is far more about questions than answers. I love that. I too am not a big creed guy … you know my take on that … but I try not to let that get in the way. Most of all, I love how there is often a powerful, spiritually meaningful, life giving dialectic between the traditional and the non-traditional, the reverent and the irreverent. Some of that traces back to John Hooker and the Via Media … seeking to live into and to embrace the tension between catholic and protestant traditions. And best of all, we celebrate the Eucharist every Sunday … and as you saw at HOCO, we do it in half circle, in community, looking into each other’s eyes. I love that. All the books you encountered at HOCO were largely a reflection of our wonderful, and diverse music program (=lots of books). Every tradition has it’s pro and cons … the Episcopal Church does not have the corner of the market … yet it works for me. And yes, you have to be card carrying goofy to join … you will do just fine.
 

I love the phrase "trending Episcopal."
 

Well, I am late to this party, and all the intellectual high points have been hit. Let me just add this: my wife who was brought up Catholic loves the Episcopal Church for its warmth and focus on the things you've mentioned. And my little girls LOVE going to Church.

As for your cons:


1) Creeds! --Consider them as just part of the "beautiful liturgy" and get over it.


2) Prep Schools???!?!?!? -- HUH? I doubt that. Check out the budget of the Church you're attending or the Diocese to which it belongs. Money goes to lots and lots of charities and causes. There are lots of good Episcopal prep schools, but I know for a fact that the money flows to lots of different places. And some of the money that flows to the schools pays for scholarships for kids that would not normally be in such schools.

3) six reference materials --- I've been to Church with you.... you don't sing. So the only two that matter are the bulletin/program and the Book of Common Prayer. The fact is, we Episcopalians love music. AND we're inclusive about it.


4) Priest? Rector? Dude? - I am sure many former students say the same about you. What do you call Prof. Rapoport at W&M? Paul? Prof. Rapaport? Dr. Rapaport? Heck, what do you call your parents' friends now that you are older than they were when you met them?
 

Thanks to Neil for sending this along to a few folks via Facebook. I have been aware of Mark via Neil for a few months now.
So, in no coherent order:

I like reference books. I always have. I love the history and tradition that point me to those books, plus the new and creative stuff that we have had recently. but figure that's the job of the priest/rector/dud(ette)/queen(which I personally prefer) to figure out and not to show my reference book as... to the congregation.

Creeds: I have been listening to people complain and wonder and worry about the creeds for many a year now. No, I don't place my entire faith in everything that a creed states. Yes, I do believe that the Creeds are part of the human need for discipline and a statement that we can refer to when times are bleak. Or joyful. If I placed my faith on the Virgin Birth I would have been outa here a long time ago.

Schools: in Minnesota, we have some fancy schools. In other Dioceses, not so much. In fact, my former Diocese, which does have a couple of fancy schools, also gives big bucks to an inner city mission school and a school for refugee kids. Money, and people-hours. I agree with the person who said that in our "fancy" schools we can teach kids stuff that isn't allowed in public school anymore. I do take this comment as a positive challenge to think about this school issue a lot more, because I think Mark has a good point here in general.

What to call the "dude". In my case, Queen works very well. Not queen as in "that queen over there", but Queen, as in, It is Good to be the Queen. You might have noticed that I am a woman-dude. Reverend works well too; it helps with the healing from the three years of graduate school bills. Just don't call me Mother. I will be rude if you do.

One thing I note for folks who are exploring the Episcopal church. When you attend one church as a guest, you might think that the whole of the Episcopal Church does things just the way that one, first church does. Despite St. Stephen's wonderfulness, you would find a few things different at St. Clement's, or St. John's, or St. Luke's, or Messiah, etc. The basics are there: the sacraments, the Book of Common Prayer, the 'Big Tent' Theology. After that, things can get very different. In a good way.
 

More pros related to your local context:

Garrison Keillor, a resident of St. Paul, is an Episcopalian.

St. Stephen's has not only "Episcopal Standard Liturgy" at the 9AM service but also jazz and gospel at the 11AM service. When the Bishop visited, the late morning offertory anthem was the one linked at the bottom of this page: http://www.ststephens.com/stst/11_service

Don't forget, however, that the summer schedule for worship starts this coming weekend so that 8AM, 9AM, 11AM, and 5PM becomes 8AM, 10AM, and 5PM. If you arrive at 11AM next Sunday and discover an empty church, you might think that "the rapture" was merely delayed a week and that you and a few other confused souls have been "left behind." See, it' OK to make a joke like that in the Episcopal Church.

The Bishop of Minnesota is cool in spite of the funny hat and the walking stick that he always seems to bring with him. His sermon yesterday referred to stones of violence (Stephen's religious executioners), stones of forgiveness (Stephen's response), and ourselves as the living stones of a house built by God. Hmmm . . . I seem to recall that a certain someone likes the image of stones as a theological symbol.

Minnehaha Creek runs along the entire length of the church property at St. Stephen's. That's creation, beauty, power for life and for destruction flowing toward the Mississippi River. Those things - seen and unseen - are framed and interpreted and given meaning as we pause together to reflect deeply, to give thanks, to pray in times of joy and of sorrow, and to participate in a community where ordinary bread and wine become holy food and ordinary men, women, and children become holy people. Then we are sent out into the world to love and serve. So there you have it.
 

Nothing wrong with being a Congrepalian, Mark, you shall be in good company I should think if you go that way!
 

My tag line is, Ordained Congregationalist working in the Episcopal Way. I was was ordained at a Congregational church in Minnesota and now work at a great Episcopal Church in the Twin Cities.

Have you ever read the book, Evangelical on the
Canterbury Trail by Robert Webber? A good book, it was my beginning into the life of being more liturgical and loving the creeds.

As my father would say, "No church is perfect if you find one don't go there because then it will not be perfect anymore."

Dave Sheldon
 

Wow - Mark - the most responses you have had to a Sunday post in a LONG time.

@ Carrie - you knit because it is COLD in Minnesota and having a sturdy container to carry knitting needles is helpful (as I am learning). The fact it is provided by GlenFiddich is, well.... very 'whiskey-palian' as my husband would say.

@IPL - you have me laughing (I neede to laugh). With Creeds - get over it and Osler you don't sing. (I can confirm he was not a member of the GPN chorus).

@ Jeff: the reference ot his winding (or twisted) journey...
 

Regarding the reference books... One of the things I always loved about my old World Book Encyclopedia was how I'd open it to look up one thing, and maybe get around to that one thing after 30 minutes' worth of detouring to 17 other things.

My kids, who Google everything, have not availed themselves of that wonderful experience.

Thumbing through the BCP, the Hymnal, or the Bible can be great, that way.
 

Can we put "Creeds" in the positive column instead!?
 

Mark, as you know I grew up evangelical and still count myself one in many ways as well as an Epsicopalian. I still think the most important feature in your list is "Gospel-centered": a church that reminds us we are all in need of God's grace and points us to it. That definitely happens very explicitly down by Minnehaha Creek, I think. But beyond that, over time, I've come to appreciate the way in which creeds are means of God's grace. I'm thinking of that passage from Dietrich Bonhoeffer about how the gracious Word definitely comes from outside us--very evangelical--but how it so often comes through others (God has set it up that way). In, among other things, saying the creeds--in saying something like what Christians have said throughout the centuries, I'm reminded that God's word and grace come through others, from those next to me as well as those across the ages. Tom
 

That last one was from me, Tom Berg, by the way. Don't blame Maureen for it. I hijacked her computer.
 

I have heard a some of your thoughts on the creeds and am not certain yet if I agree with you or not. Yet I must admit that you challenged me to think.

I was raised in the Roman tradition (where one is not encouraged to think) and recited those creeds many, many times. I walked away from the Roman church as an adult, knowing it wasn't the place for me. When I found the Episcopal church, I knew I had found where I was supposed to be (all along actually - which is why I consider myself a cradle Episcopalian, despite the evidence to the contrary). Reciting the creeds was like wrapping myself in a favourite old blanket. It was almost as if somewhere in the back of my mind I said "I remember why I'm here. I'm home."
 

Mark,
Do not think of the Creed as something to run from, but to embrace. I have heard we should say “I belove in the God the Father” instead of believe. As Christians do we not love all these things about our faith? Aren’t these the ideas we struggle with all of our lives to understand? I believe we come together as community each Sunday to support one another on this journey of mystery that we will never truly grasp in our human lifetimes. One, at some point in their lives has to just let go to the beauty of the mystery if they are going to be a Christian believer, especially one that is part of a Eucharistic denomination.
 

I'm blaming myself for those Peter Gomes books I gave you years ago.
 

Also, might I recommend (as other posters have previoulsy done) Jaroslav Pelikan on the creeds.

I also like that saucy Dorothy Sayers and her fun little acerbic work Creed or Chaos. I know that not all will agree with me on this score, but it really is a fun book.
 

Modern English Version
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. AMEN.
 

Nicene Creed
MODERN WORDING

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son].
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN.
 

Although you’ve shared a few of your NASCAR adventures here on the Razor, you don’t seem like a huge sports fan. So you’ll be glad to know that an Episcopal priest in Massachusetts named Tim Schenck has created “Lent Madness,” which usually takes place about the same time as college basketball’s “March Madness.” It involves an impressive 32-saint bracket and votes that are taken to choose between two heros of the Christian faith in each matchup as they make their way toward the Golden Halo.

Four “celebrity bloggers” were invited to speak on behalf of each of this year’s final four candidates. Yours truly was asked to be an advocate for C.S. Lewis, who ultimately won the saintly smackdown by a mere 7 votes out of a total of 208 votes cast.

As you can see, Anglican Christianity has produced not only an author like C.S. Lewis, whose books continue to nurture the Christian imagination of young people, but also someone like Tim Schenck, who finds a way to teach while having fun too.

I rather like the notion of being a bit high brow and a bit low brow at the same time. It seems wonderfully Anglican to me (at least in the case of the Episcopal Church). It also fits your example here on the Razor, which is both serious and silly.

One cannot have too large a party. So welcome, there’s always room for you at the feast.
 

For an excellent meditation on the creeds see Dwight Zscheile's sermon "Drawn Nontheless" (full disclosure: he's my husbabnd) found by clicking on the "worship" tab and then the "sermons" link at the St. Matthew's, St. Paul website, www.stmatthewsmn.org. It was part of a series of sermons on what we do in Episcopal worship, and why.

Blessings,
Blair Pogue
 

The Chief had us reciting a creed at the 5-O service at St.Stephen's that I almost didn't mind reciting. I tried to find it,but couldn't.This is what I did find:

THE CREED

"We believe in God,who made the world,loves it and smiles upon it.
We believe in Jesus Christ,who has shown us the human face of God,and a love that refused to be limited,who calls us to a life that even death cannot end.We believe in the Holy Spirit through whom God reaches us,surprising,prompting and questioning us;who is the life breath of creation;and the source of nurture,humor and hope.We believe in ourselves as people made in the divine image,capable of great creativity and great destruction,but called to choose between them. We believe that Christ leads us now,calling us to a life that is absurd by the standards of the world; calling us to resist evil,including anything that would degrade or destroy another and to create and protect love,justice,freedom and peace." Charles Scott May P.S. I doubt this will mollify you,since I think you object to reciting human-written words,but I thought it said what was in my heart well. Remember you don't really have to recite what you're uncomfortable reciting.
 

On the subject of the 6 reference materials in the pew, here is a sonnet I was once inspired to write:

The sermon's not the only path in church
To learn of sin and how it does defile
The human soul, one hasn't far to search
The service leaflet proves the perfect trial.
My awe is tinged with envy when I hear
The others jump to Book of Common Prayer
And back again with ease, while rage may rear
Its head as inserts green and pink prepare
To flutter off and land ahead one pew.
To sing, I grab the hymnal book in greed.
I pride my skills compared with someone new,
But find they're still of insufficient speed.
In sloth, I cease to follow or to ponder
The other sins are where my thoughts will wander.

Maureen Kane Berg
 

Their music is always better
 

Haiku for the Anglican Way (on a Friday, of course):

What makes sense of things:
scripture, tradition, reason,
intertwined with love.
 

I am a southern gentleman from Georgia. My wife, daughter, and I are members of a small town Episcopal Church in a county that is overwhelming Evangelical and Conservative. Our parish is commonly referred to as 'the gay' church in our community. Which in the deep south is to be expected. I have lived here my entire life and have come to expect the embers of hatred against black folks, gays, lesbians, and now trans people to slowly continue to burn.
Most concerning, to me is that we're losing our sanctuary. We have lost way too many parishioners and especially families.
One problem is that we don't have a Pastor. We have a lay minister. But he can't perform the Sacrament of the Eucharist. Our church community is looking for some leadership within the Church and in the community. We are eager to welcome all. With No exceptions. And willing to be an advocate for peace in our community.
Frankly, I am disappointed in the lack of assistance in this endeavor from the Diocese. It is depressing. But I am proud to be Episcopalian and I won't let our church fail.
Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated. ✌️ ❤️