Sunday, February 08, 2009
Sunday Reflections: Praying for an outcome
Yesterday at our winter commencement ceremony, graduating student Chad Newman gave the invocation, and did a great job (I love it when students have substantive roles in commencement). One of the things he mentioned in the prayer was that Baylor students think of God variously-- including some who pray only every ten weeks (that is, during every finals period).
It was a good line, and true. I suspect that all of us have prayed for an outcome at one time or another-- that we pass a test, or get a job, or succeed in some other way. I know that there have been times that I have done so. However, I admit that I haven't done so in a long time, because there is something about it that feels wrong. In part, praying for an outcome seems to put us above God-- that is, we know what we need better than God does, so we direct him towards an outcome. There is a certain arrogance in that.
Or is there?
It was a good line, and true. I suspect that all of us have prayed for an outcome at one time or another-- that we pass a test, or get a job, or succeed in some other way. I know that there have been times that I have done so. However, I admit that I haven't done so in a long time, because there is something about it that feels wrong. In part, praying for an outcome seems to put us above God-- that is, we know what we need better than God does, so we direct him towards an outcome. There is a certain arrogance in that.
Or is there?
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I offer the ritual sacrifice of drink and meat to Odin only after finals. Good or bad, Valhalla comes to all who fight.
Course, expecting sympathy from a god that hanged himself from a tree for nine days in exchange for knowledge is sorta silly.
Course, expecting sympathy from a god that hanged himself from a tree for nine days in exchange for knowledge is sorta silly.
I am not sure about that.. but I do know people who pray for others and they take prayer requests My mother in Law Mary Jo and Bill's dad both do this with their church and their prayer chain circle thing. I ask them sometimes to pray for others but I have never asked them to pray for things like so a person gets money or something like this.
I have asked them to pray for people facing illness or alcoholism or unemployment things like that. OR strength to deal with things.. or that a surgery goes well, or that you know a child gets better.
I think praying is a great thing to do for the people who do it and I would hate to ever take advantage of it. I only ask for other people and I only ask for things like health and circumstances things like this. I think it is crass to ask God to help you win money or something like this. I respect the power of prayer maybe more than most because I have no one to pray to.
I have asked them to pray for people facing illness or alcoholism or unemployment things like that. OR strength to deal with things.. or that a surgery goes well, or that you know a child gets better.
I think praying is a great thing to do for the people who do it and I would hate to ever take advantage of it. I only ask for other people and I only ask for things like health and circumstances things like this. I think it is crass to ask God to help you win money or something like this. I respect the power of prayer maybe more than most because I have no one to pray to.
I feel that way about people, or more often countries, who claim that God is on their side. That seems like a terribly arrogant claim to make--to claim that God would take sides at all, but especially to assume that he's on the side of the person making that claim.
I think yes, in general, it feels arrogant to pray to God for a specific outcome. At the same time, it seems real to admit freely to God what we want . . .
I guess it so often goes back to that Stones song: "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find you get what you need." I feel like that's often what God does for us--and it's often not easy to accept.
I think yes, in general, it feels arrogant to pray to God for a specific outcome. At the same time, it seems real to admit freely to God what we want . . .
I guess it so often goes back to that Stones song: "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find you get what you need." I feel like that's often what God does for us--and it's often not easy to accept.
# posted by 
: 8:41 PM
: 8:41 PM
Micah
'nmore' is a southern term. If you are speaking in BAD southern english 'nmore' is the same as 'no more'. And to use the term 'no more' in my original post sounds like bad english.
The term 'nmore' can also be attributed to poor typing skills taught by Mrs. Reitmeyer during summer school ~ many years ago.
'nmore' is a southern term. If you are speaking in BAD southern english 'nmore' is the same as 'no more'. And to use the term 'no more' in my original post sounds like bad english.
The term 'nmore' can also be attributed to poor typing skills taught by Mrs. Reitmeyer during summer school ~ many years ago.
Lane, I love that, "Good or bad, Valhalla comes to all who fight."
Hmm, as for me, I say God knows what is in your heart, so prayer is more about submission than supposition. However, I have seen prayers answered in a way that can only be described as miraculous. I have also seen the prayers of both the righteous and deserving go unanswered. Both results must be met with the same response...thanksgiving and trust in our God. Not always easy, this faith.
Hmm, as for me, I say God knows what is in your heart, so prayer is more about submission than supposition. However, I have seen prayers answered in a way that can only be described as miraculous. I have also seen the prayers of both the righteous and deserving go unanswered. Both results must be met with the same response...thanksgiving and trust in our God. Not always easy, this faith.
Micah, I am an agnostic that pretends to be a Viking on the Internet because it's such a cool obscure religion, as well as ancestrally correct given my Germanic heritage.
Plus, you get some great oaths. "Sweet scales of Jormungandr" and "by the hammer of Thor!" are awesome things to exclaim when shocked or excited.
Plus, you get some great oaths. "Sweet scales of Jormungandr" and "by the hammer of Thor!" are awesome things to exclaim when shocked or excited.
Mmmm...well, if praying for a specific outcome is problematic, then lots of righteous, just individuals in both the Hebrew and the Christian Scriptures (including Jesus and the disciples) would be in trouble...many instances of prayers of supplication, praying that specific unjust situations be made just in the community, that specific sick persons be cured of specific ailments, etc. Jesus did say certain demons can only be cast out by prayer and fasting, right? So one might presume that the prayer would be specifically focused on Divine help to conquer those demons.
Jesus told us to beseech God in prayer, yet we can't always anticipate how those prayers will be answered.
Plenty of saints exist in Western tradition who implored God for specific aid (i.e., to feed the hungry, clothe and shelter the poor, heal a wounded heart and soul, etc.) and the hagiography has them finding God's help in sometimes surprising ways.
You'd have lots of company in Christendom if you asked specifically for something in intercessory prayer.
Jesus told us to beseech God in prayer, yet we can't always anticipate how those prayers will be answered.
Plenty of saints exist in Western tradition who implored God for specific aid (i.e., to feed the hungry, clothe and shelter the poor, heal a wounded heart and soul, etc.) and the hagiography has them finding God's help in sometimes surprising ways.
You'd have lots of company in Christendom if you asked specifically for something in intercessory prayer.
# posted by : 2:18 AM
: 2:18 AM
Oops, sorry, also meant to add that many of these saintly individuals needed to pray and did pray for their own specific and particular areas that needed healing (i.e., Paul and his thorn in his side), so it wasn't all intercessory prayer for others.
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# posted by : 2:22 AM
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