Osler's Razor

I think a huge part of being a person of faith is discernment... I choose the path of faith b/c I've tried living w/o it, and the school of hard knocks has taught me that faith *works*.

I think that the God in whom I believe has a terrific sense of humor. Further, though of course I didn't see the show you did, it seems to me that most of that type of comedy is not pointed at God so much as it is pointed at *us*.

So, no, I don't think there's anything wrong with laughing at this stuff.
 

Prof.

Why do you always seems so guilty about co-mingling enjoyment of life versus being faithful? There are no rules that say someone can only be considered a 'good' person if they are a person of faith. You can infact be a very spiritual person and have nothing to do with organized religion.

Maybe you need to learn how to live again.
 

I don't have any solid answers. But I sure enjoyed an evening of victory celebration that may have involved some less-than-christ-like behavior. For me, it depends on your roll. Who are you impacting? Who are you called to impact? And how are your surroundings impacting you?
 

If you apply the WWJD test, I'm sure Jesus would have enjoyed a laugh and some good music . . . and I don't mean that in a sacrilegious kind of way. We are human after all.
 

Christine--

Of course there are good people of all kinds of faith, and none at all-- and I think a lot of them were at the Ben Folds show. I don't think I ever said that there is a correlation between behavior and religious identification in the world at large, and I'm not sure that there is one. A lot of church-goers do some pretty terrible things, and some people who are not active in any faith do some incredibly generous things.

This was more about my own relationship between faith and culture. Obviously, I did not have a problem with going to the show, but I know there are others who might, and I was asking to hear that viewpoint.
 

I should have remembered, I too was at the Ben Folds concert last night! It was great, especially because of the two encores and all the "fake" songs. Ben is a terrific musician.


Love,
Matt

(This review was sponsored by giant sad faces everywhere.)
 

Hey man, I'm sure the Folds show was great. But Weezer was awesome. A trumpet solo. An accordion solo. Tons of singalongs. And covers of Pink Floyd's "Time" and a Nirvana song. I'm just saying...

Oh, and I think everyone was very Christian-like in our victory celebrations last night, except for Tom.
 

And for me, that line would be whether I'm participating in something that is hurtful to someone else. That's where I would draw the line, and that's what I think of as un-Christian.

For example, I think watching a parody, and participating as a performer in parody (i.e. Tina Fey playing Sarah Palin) is okay, but if it crosses over into pure, unfounded, totally mean-spirited insults, then it's not okay; it's not Christian.
 

man, rrl. what? what? yeah, you heard me? what?
 

with all the suffering in the world today, we need as many people as possible helping to alleviate this.

i guess i favor engagement over disentanglement. but it's a personal choice. :)
 

I guess I am disconnected on this issue.

You enjoy various types of music and so do I. You enjoy going to small vemues in Austin to listen to interesting music.

I guess if the musician's focus isn't singing abount doing detrimental things to other living beings (people, animals), committing crimes then I fail to see why attending a concert or show would be questionable in the first place.

Does this mean that because you are a person of faith, you can only listen to music performed by people of faith? Or does this mean that I (not being of faith) can not listen to and enjoy music performed by people of faith. If that is the case, then I have a real problem because I would guess there are more people of faith making their living inthe music industry than not.

No need to respond as I think I am still missing the point.
 

Which raises the question-- is there something wrong with a person of faith so enjoying Ben Folds?

Absolutely not.
 

It's a good question that most Christians I know struggle with. Whilst in line at HEB I overheard two young ladies discuss a similar moral dichotomy/polychotomy. One of the gals said "Oh, I am sooo excited to turn 18, so I can finally get my tattoo!" The other girl sniffed, and said "Oooh, I would never put a mark on my body, cuz I don't know what Jesus thinks about that."

It was a conversation killer between the two, but it made me want to jump in and debate. I think TallTenor is right about discernment. God has not given us an exhaustive penal code of behaviour, instead He sent us His Spirit to guide our thoughts and actions in the gray areas.

I am certain that what may be harmless to one, could be a step away from grace for another. The trick is to not transpose the Spirit's guidance for you into rules for others, (unless they are your own children). Choices of music, reading and film fall into this gray area, I think. I do not believe that listening to gospel music makes me a better Christian, nor that listening to Tool has warped me horribly, but others (my mom!) may disagree.
 

Christine--

The thing you are missing is that I'm not seeking any rule that applies to anyone besides me, or passing judgement on anyone else. Obviously, again, I am ok with secular music, even profane music, since I paid good money to go see it!

What I was asking was how people make these decisions for themselves. I don't think anyone here is trying to tell you or anyone else what to do or what music to like. However, there are internal struggles that individuals have, and that is what I was interested in.
 

I believe media has a profound influence on people. And we need to be careful what we expose ourselves to. That said, I don't believe people of faith need only entertain themselves with faith-based diversions.

And (I know people will roll their eyes when they read this) God has given guidelines regarding entertainment and media through living prophets:

“Entertainment and the Media,” For the Strength of Youth: Fulfilling Our Duty to God, 17

“'If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things' (Articles of Faith 1:13).

"Whatever you read, listen to, or look at has an effect on you. Therefore, choose only entertainment and media that uplift you. Good entertainment will help you to have good thoughts and make righteous choices. It will allow you to enjoy yourself without losing the Spirit of the Lord.

"While much entertainment is good, some of it can lead you away from righteous living. Offensive material is often found in web sites, concerts, movies, music, videocassettes, DVDs, books, magazines, pictures, and other media. Satan uses such entertainment to deceive you by making what is wrong and evil look normal and exciting. It can mislead you into thinking that everyone is doing things that are wrong.

"Do not attend, view, or participate in entertainment that is vulgar, immoral, violent, or pornographic in any way. Do not participate in entertainment that in any way presents immorality or violent behavior as acceptable.

"Pornography in all its forms is especially dangerous and addictive. What may begin as a curious indulgence can become a destructive habit that takes control of your life. It can lead you to sexual transgression and even criminal behavior. Pornography is a poison that weakens your self-control, changes the way you see others, causes you to lose the guidance of the Spirit, and can even affect your ability to have a normal relationship with your future spouse. If you encounter pornography, turn away from it immediately.

"Depictions of violence often glamorize vicious behavior. They offend the Spirit and make you less able to respond to others in a sensitive, caring way. They contradict the Savior’s message of love for one another.

"Have the courage to walk out of a movie or video party, turn off a computer or television, change a radio station, or put down a magazine if what is being presented does not meet Heavenly Father’s standards. Do these things even if others do not. Let your friends and family know that you are committed to keeping God’s standards. You have the gift of the Holy Ghost, which will give you strength and help you make good choices."
 

How does one make this decision, Oz? For me, the question is simple:

Does it make me uncomfortable, or not?

If something makes me uncomfortable, then it's not "right." For me. If it doesn't, then it's OK.
 

First of all, I like to listen to rock/heavy metal/Ben Folds-type music. One day, I was talking about music (Ben Folds in particular) to my friend at school. Suddenly, my other friend (who takes the Bible really literally) blurted in that we shouldn't be listening to this stuff, and that the Bible tells us not to. We told her that even though he swears sometimes, he's not saying any really bad phrases/words. She then said, "Well, he's not saying any good words either." This friend actually listens to a Christian "rock" version of blink-182's "All the Small Things" about Noah's Ark. I agree with swissgirl's viewpoint. It's okay to watch SNL or listen to Ben Folds as long as it doesn't turn into scathing insults.

Oh yeah, and this friend thinks that the earth is square because the bible says "the four corners of the earth". Go figure.
 

Hey Professor, glad you had a good time. I hope you liked Stubb's. It's definitely one of my favorite venues.

I just came across this video of Ben Folds Five performing their last album in its entirety and thought I would pass it on.