Thursday, October 16, 2008
Political Mayhem Thursday, with Guest Blogger The Waco Farmer
First, a list.
If I had to pick a baker’s dozen of great American films that tell our story, it might be these:
It’s A Wonderful Life
Shane
O’Brother, Where Art Thou?
That Thing You Do
Apollo 13
Goodfellas/
The Godfather
To Kill A Mockingbird/
Anatomy of a Murder
Hoosiers
Wayne’s World
The Incredibles
Wall Street
An obvious critique of my own list: this collection is very white and male and, perhaps, overly sympathetic to the traditional view of America as the home of the brave and land of the free. So be it! On the other hand, there is not a John Wayne or Clint Eastwood film in the bunch. There needs to be. Ditto for Paul Newman and Robert Redford.
Whose Ox is it Anyway?
SNL clip: http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/c-span-bailout/727521/
The above "Saturday Night Live" skit skewered Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, George Soros, “deadbeat” homebuyers, speculators, and Herb and Marion Sandler for their roles in the mortgage meltdown. Pretty clever. To my great surprise, it proved insightfully critical of Democrats.
Then, last week, without explanation, the clip disappeared off the program's website. Why? According to spokespersons from SNL and NBC, when pressed for answers, the bit "didn't meet [their] standards."
Really!?!
It did not meet SNL standards? Really!?!
What standards exactly? Standards of accuracy? Good taste? Fairness? Standards? Really!?!
Do you remember the one about (fill in your favorite tasteless SNL moment here)? But this one did not meet your standards?
Really!?!
No harm, no foul—I suppose. After a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth on the conservative blogosphere, the skit is back on the website—but, come now, “standards”? REALLY!?!
The Good News: the Tina Fey/Sarah Palin material, evidently, continues to live up to all aforementioned SNL “standards.”
Does the Media lean left? Pretty hard to name a sitcom or drama with a conservative undertone. There is no conservative late night talk show or equivalent to SNL. I cannot think of a conservative David E. Kelly or Aaron Sorkin. Or, for some of us old timers, a conservative Norman Lear. Anybody?
Are there logical reasons for this? Certainly. Creative folks are naturally more prone to a “liberal” sensibility. Entertainment is a product of New York and L.A. Conservatives just aren’t that funny?
Am I whining? I don’t think so. I don’t mean to be. I have come to accept the world as it is. I am not one to rail against the liberal bias of the mainstream media. I am, in fact, a big fan of Saturday Night Live, and I have been, literally, since the very beginning.
I suffer their politics because I enjoy their art. Such is life. The perfect is often the enemy of the good.
Important Confession: I am also a big fan of NPR. I admire their artistry. I acknowledge their left-leaning bias, which often colors their coverage of Republicans and conservatives in unflattering and unfriendly ways. Nevertheless, I appreciate the skill and erudition that permeates every aspect of their operation.
However, there are times when the subtle bias of NPR makes me cringe. The other morning I was listening to story about a bell-weather county in Indiana (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95617378 ) in which the poor NPR correspondent, Howard Burkes, dutifully reported on three ignoramuses who wondered whether they could vote for a Muslim. Berkes immediately inserted into the audio narrative, with his well-modulated authority, a correction: “of course, he [Obama] has always been a Christian.” Later, a more enlightened white voter asserted (without challenge): "If Obama were a white man, I'd say he'd be way out in front here and nationally."
According to reputable national polls, approximately 90 percent of voters understand that Barack Obama is a professing Christian. Give national news organizations credit for digging up the ignorant tenth in disproportionate numbers to buttress the obligatory mention of the most famously false accusation in American history. Then, the corrective from Berkes: “he’s always been a Christian.” From birth? Funny—but also a cultural commentary that even this basic fact of Protestant Christianity somehow eluded this top national reporter. This is a mistake you might expect from one trying to make sense of a foreign culture. More importantly, it also omits a telling episode in the life of the candidate (the way in which Obama came to Christ). And then there is the ubiquitous assertion that “race” is somehow holding back this candidate. Presumably, if he were white (like John Kerry, Al Gore, Mike Dukakis, Walter Mondale, or George McGovern), Barack Obama would be fourteen points ahead by now.
As I say, I love NPR—but this story is just another example of the unexamined assumptions that permeate even the best reporting in America.
Again, don’t hear me complaining. But I do get a little frustrated when I hear liberals rail against FOX News and other arms of the conservative media as somehow egregiously biased (compared, presumably, to the mainstream media culture).
FULL DISCLOSURE: I should mention that I do not watch FOX News on a regular basis. Why? I have an ultra-frugal cable package, which, blessedly, does not offer FOX News, CNN, MSNBC, or the Cartoon Network. Thanks be to God. However, my package does come with C-SPAN 1 & 2 (my wife has long suspected some kind of conspiracy regarding that piece of good fortune). FYI: there is no skullduggery involved—I am just lucky that way.
Having said that, I do monitor FOX News—and feel competent to comment on the following question:
How is FOX News different from the other network and cable news organizations?
Fox is not under the delusion of "objectivity." The liberal mainstream media labors under the self-serving certainty that they are reporting the news of the day in an objective way.
No matter how many studies show that an obscenely high percentage of "Beltway" reporters vote for Democratic candidates, mainstream reporters continue to argue that their personal politics do not impinge on their ability to report the news in a detached manner. They are professionals. In their own minds, they are expertly objective.
I have always believed that the FOX News slogan, "fair and balanced," was partly a parody of the mainstreamer’s tortured self-perception.
What do I mean by that?
Most of the Fox pioneers were veteran reporters and producers from the mainstream orgs (think Britt Hume formerly of ABC News). They had toiled in the fields of their oppressors for years. When they broke free and raised their own flag, they signaled their independence and defiance with a series of slogans like "We Report, You Decide" and "Fair and Balanced."
Moreover, they knew well that the competition would see FOX as conservatives reporting the news through a lens of conservatism. But they also knew that their liberal counterparts would NOT see FOX as their mirror image; the established media would continue to see themselves as faithful adherents to the sacred calling of objectivity; they would see FOX News as unwashed infidels desecrating the holy temple of objective journalism.
The FOX News brain trust fully expected that their conservative cable news network would make the mainstream newspersons apoplectic. Furthermore, I am convinced that they think the whole situation is quite hilarious.
Bottom Line: it really comes down to whose ox is getting gored. FOX viewers appreciate a reading and framing of the news sympathetic to conservatism. This makes some non-conservatives very angry. They should calm down, be more generous, and let conservatives have one news outlet.
Comments:
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have you ever thought that perhaps the media isn't liberal, but their "unflattering coverage" of conservatives occur because conservatives do "unflattering" things?
the media doesn't have a liberal bias. with the exception of fox, they don't have a conservative bias. they have a professional bias: they want to make money.
the media doesn't have a liberal bias. with the exception of fox, they don't have a conservative bias. they have a professional bias: they want to make money.
# posted by 
: 8:16 AM
: 8:16 AM
There is so much to comment on so I will need to think a while but will state the following.
With regard to Republicans and creativity genes... my parents and brother thought it was 'funny' when they called me to find out what radio station in Tampa carries the Rush Limbaugh radio show. They don't know or care what station carries NPR in any state.
Maybe I'll comment on movies later.
With regard to Republicans and creativity genes... my parents and brother thought it was 'funny' when they called me to find out what radio station in Tampa carries the Rush Limbaugh radio show. They don't know or care what station carries NPR in any state.
Maybe I'll comment on movies later.
Alright, I'm on board for these movies expressing something that is quintessentially American:
It’s A Wonderful Life
Apollo 13
To Kill a Mockingbird
Hoosiers
Wall Street
The others, I'm not so sure about. I love both Goodfellas and the Godfather, but Godfather II certainly shows a much more American experience given the hour or so spent in the movie on the immigration narrative. I would've included that movie. I probably also would've included at least one WWII and one Vietnamn movie, given the impact those conflicts had on our society as a whole. Probably Patton or Saving Private Ryan would've made my list.
Also, if discussing the American experience it seems that Forrest Gump is a movie that ought to make your list.
I also don't see how Gone With the Wind doesn't make the list, or potentially Ken Burns' Civil War documentary. That conflict more than any other conflict represents something important about America. I also think a baseball movie (The Natural or Eight Men Out, maybe even Pride of the Yankees) should make the list given that it is the "national" game.
I would probably also include The War Wagon, simply because a western is necessary here, and it is my favorite.
It’s A Wonderful Life
Apollo 13
To Kill a Mockingbird
Hoosiers
Wall Street
The others, I'm not so sure about. I love both Goodfellas and the Godfather, but Godfather II certainly shows a much more American experience given the hour or so spent in the movie on the immigration narrative. I would've included that movie. I probably also would've included at least one WWII and one Vietnamn movie, given the impact those conflicts had on our society as a whole. Probably Patton or Saving Private Ryan would've made my list.
Also, if discussing the American experience it seems that Forrest Gump is a movie that ought to make your list.
I also don't see how Gone With the Wind doesn't make the list, or potentially Ken Burns' Civil War documentary. That conflict more than any other conflict represents something important about America. I also think a baseball movie (The Natural or Eight Men Out, maybe even Pride of the Yankees) should make the list given that it is the "national" game.
I would probably also include The War Wagon, simply because a western is necessary here, and it is my favorite.
# posted by : 9:42 AM
: 9:42 AM
Anon:
You may be falling into an either/or fallacy.
the media doesn't have a liberal bias. they have a professional bias: they want to make money.
The Media can have more than one bias. They have a desire to make money, of course. They also have a bias toward conflict and scandal.
But those biases do not preclude them from having a liberal bias.
You may be falling into an either/or fallacy.
the media doesn't have a liberal bias. they have a professional bias: they want to make money.
The Media can have more than one bias. They have a desire to make money, of course. They also have a bias toward conflict and scandal.
But those biases do not preclude them from having a liberal bias.
So, I guess the central premise of your post is that objectivity is an impossible objective to obtain, so the media should just quite trying and be as biased as they want to be. Just because true objectivity is an impossible goal, doesn't mean they should quite trying. By the same logic, jurors and judges should throw objectivity by the wayside. And since under Christian theology a sin-free life is an impossible goal, we should quite trying to live a less-sinful life and open the sin floodgates. The media must strive to be as objective as they can be, and the public needs to recognize that even when they are trying their hardest, there are still some biases. But that doesn't give some media outlets a pass to be unabashedly partisan.
# posted by : 9:48 AM
: 9:48 AM
rrl:
I pretty much agree with your additions. I almost put Saving Private Ryan in there--but I worried that I would be too heavy on Tom Hanks.
FYI: Tom Hanks and Jimmy Stewart are my quintessential American actors.
Godfather and Goodfellas tell the story of our fascination with gangsters. I included Godfellas because it touches on our modern fascination with prosecuting gangsters.
No argument witih on the importance of the Civil War. GWTW might have worked--but it never makes my list.
Ken Burns belonged--maybe Ken Burn's Baseball might have killed two birds with one stone.
Also, I had selected a baseball movie, it would have been BANG THE DRUM SLOWLY--but I picked Hoosiers as the best representative of the great sports movie genre.
I pretty much agree with your additions. I almost put Saving Private Ryan in there--but I worried that I would be too heavy on Tom Hanks.
FYI: Tom Hanks and Jimmy Stewart are my quintessential American actors.
Godfather and Goodfellas tell the story of our fascination with gangsters. I included Godfellas because it touches on our modern fascination with prosecuting gangsters.
No argument witih on the importance of the Civil War. GWTW might have worked--but it never makes my list.
Ken Burns belonged--maybe Ken Burn's Baseball might have killed two birds with one stone.
Also, I had selected a baseball movie, it would have been BANG THE DRUM SLOWLY--but I picked Hoosiers as the best representative of the great sports movie genre.
Brian:
I suppose I am suggesting that FOX's admission that objectivity is impossible is honorable in a way--or at least more realistic about human nature.
I suppose I am suggesting that FOX's admission that objectivity is impossible is honorable in a way--or at least more realistic about human nature.
rrl:
Again, great choice on Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. I definitely thought long and hard before I crossed it off my list.
My thinking: I did not want to get too heavy on Stewart (already had two of his films). Also, for me, It's a Wonderful Life represents the ultimate Capra story. Another Capra film seemed just a bit gratuitous.
Again, great choice on Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. I definitely thought long and hard before I crossed it off my list.
My thinking: I did not want to get too heavy on Stewart (already had two of his films). Also, for me, It's a Wonderful Life represents the ultimate Capra story. Another Capra film seemed just a bit gratuitous.
Oh, by the way, thanks to Prof. Osler for the hunky "Waco Farmer" picture.
I will imagine myself as this person all day long.
I will imagine myself as this person all day long.
A quintessentially American movie?
Violence
Humor
Sex
Sports
Paul Newman
Anti-establishment social satire
Slap Shot
Violence
Humor
Sex
Sports
Paul Newman
Anti-establishment social satire
Slap Shot
Great addition, sleepywalleye.
I absolutely love your criteria and your sentiment. For me, the idea of Slap Shot is actually more enjoyable than the movie itself. I blame myself for not liking the film more (it's me not it). I think I built it up too much in my mind before I finally watched it.
I absolutely love your criteria and your sentiment. For me, the idea of Slap Shot is actually more enjoyable than the movie itself. I blame myself for not liking the film more (it's me not it). I think I built it up too much in my mind before I finally watched it.
Does a "conservative" approach justify Fox News referring to Michelle Obama as "Obama's Baby Mama"?!?
# posted by : 1:19 PM
: 1:19 PM
I would suggest Band of Brothers over Patton or SPR. Of course, it may be disqualified since it is technically a "miniseries". However, if the great Ken Burns gets in, BoB should be a shoe-in. It's the greatest piece of entertainment media ever produced (or a close second to Caddyshack, at least).
To get both Godfather I & II in, I think you should be able to count them as the same movie. If you have to pick, go with II. De Niro for the win.
How about Butch Cassidy to take care of the Western/Newman/Redford requirement?
To get both Godfather I & II in, I think you should be able to count them as the same movie. If you have to pick, go with II. De Niro for the win.
How about Butch Cassidy to take care of the Western/Newman/Redford requirement?
KV is 100% correct. Band of Brothers (miniseries or not) should be the WWII film of choice. I'm actually dissapointed in myself for not getting that one in there. Though, I think Patton is a pretty excellent film as well.
I'm still sticking with War Wagon for the western movie though.
I think my list goes like this:
Godfather II
Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
It's a Wonderful Life
Ken Burns' Baseball
Ken Burns' Civil War
Band of Brothers
War Wagon
Forrest Gump
Hoosiers
Rocky IV
Others getting consideration:
Patton
Gone With the Wind
Easy Rider
Giant
Top Gun
Red Dawn
I'm still sticking with War Wagon for the western movie though.
I think my list goes like this:
Godfather II
Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
It's a Wonderful Life
Ken Burns' Baseball
Ken Burns' Civil War
Band of Brothers
War Wagon
Forrest Gump
Hoosiers
Rocky IV
Others getting consideration:
Patton
Gone With the Wind
Easy Rider
Giant
Top Gun
Red Dawn
# posted by : 2:25 PM
: 2:25 PM
-Animal House (seriously, I'm not joking. Its portrait of male bonding is dead-on accurate)
-Gettysburg (sadly, almost no one has seen this incredible movie about one of the most important battles in history)
-Cool Hand Luke (the indomitable individual)
-Citizen Kane (ambition, publishing, power, politics ...)
-Yes, definitely "Gone with the Wind."
-Giant (Come on Texans, how could you leave this off)
-All The Kings Men
-The Battle of the Bulge (a Hollywood portrayal, no doubt, but a great story of American courage and fighting spirit)
-The Searchers (there's your John Wayne movie)
-Gettysburg (sadly, almost no one has seen this incredible movie about one of the most important battles in history)
-Cool Hand Luke (the indomitable individual)
-Citizen Kane (ambition, publishing, power, politics ...)
-Yes, definitely "Gone with the Wind."
-Giant (Come on Texans, how could you leave this off)
-All The Kings Men
-The Battle of the Bulge (a Hollywood portrayal, no doubt, but a great story of American courage and fighting spirit)
-The Searchers (there's your John Wayne movie)
# posted by : 4:00 PM
: 4:00 PM
For the record, I do have a western: Shane.
I came close to picking Giant, by the way, which was directed by George Stevens, who also directed Shane and considered those two films plus A Place in the Sun to be his great American triology.
And Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid were actually on my list for a while--but lost out on the final cut.
I suppose a better question for all of you who are making these great additions: what to take off?
I came close to picking Giant, by the way, which was directed by George Stevens, who also directed Shane and considered those two films plus A Place in the Sun to be his great American triology.
And Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid were actually on my list for a while--but lost out on the final cut.
I suppose a better question for all of you who are making these great additions: what to take off?
Embarrassing Admission: I have never seen Band of Brothers. I am waiting for the DVD price to come down.
But I have no doubt BoB is completely worthy of selection.
Animal House is every bit worthy. I agree with IPLG.
I also considered the Searchers--but it is another one of those movies of which I expected so much, I was a bit disappointed when I finally saw it. As a result, not one of my favorites. Again, I feel bad about that one.
Recently, I listed Cool Hand Luke as one of give great Paul Newman films. Absolutely a great film.
But I have no doubt BoB is completely worthy of selection.
Animal House is every bit worthy. I agree with IPLG.
I also considered the Searchers--but it is another one of those movies of which I expected so much, I was a bit disappointed when I finally saw it. As a result, not one of my favorites. Again, I feel bad about that one.
Recently, I listed Cool Hand Luke as one of give great Paul Newman films. Absolutely a great film.
iplawguy:
As with many things, we also agree about Giant. Tremendous movie. And as you point out, I should've spoken up about it earlier as a proud Texan. I am ashamed of myself.
I like the inclusion of Animal House. I will say I feel like the 80s rah rah USA!! movies are missing from this discussion. I mean where is Red Dawn? Where is Rocky IV? Why isn't anyone else talking about Top Gun? These are American movies to the core, that express fundamental American ideals.
Plus, the "If I can change, and you can change, then we all can change" speech at the end of Rocky IV, along with Reagan's awesomeness, ended the Cold War. So that is something right there.
As with many things, we also agree about Giant. Tremendous movie. And as you point out, I should've spoken up about it earlier as a proud Texan. I am ashamed of myself.
I like the inclusion of Animal House. I will say I feel like the 80s rah rah USA!! movies are missing from this discussion. I mean where is Red Dawn? Where is Rocky IV? Why isn't anyone else talking about Top Gun? These are American movies to the core, that express fundamental American ideals.
Plus, the "If I can change, and you can change, then we all can change" speech at the end of Rocky IV, along with Reagan's awesomeness, ended the Cold War. So that is something right there.
# posted by : 5:24 PM
: 5:24 PM
Here are a few of my movie picks...
~ Cool Hand Luke
~ Do the Right Thing
~ To Kill a Mockingbird
~ Apocalypse Now or The Deer Hunter
~ Sophie's Choice
~ Pride of the Yankees
~ Goodfella's
~ Flags of our Fathers and Letters from Iwa Jima (Clint put together a great retrospective with these films)
~ On The Waterfront
~ The Lord of the Rings (all 3 films)
Why are all the really great movies so damn depressing or violent....
~ Cool Hand Luke
~ Do the Right Thing
~ To Kill a Mockingbird
~ Apocalypse Now or The Deer Hunter
~ Sophie's Choice
~ Pride of the Yankees
~ Goodfella's
~ Flags of our Fathers and Letters from Iwa Jima (Clint put together a great retrospective with these films)
~ On The Waterfront
~ The Lord of the Rings (all 3 films)
Why are all the really great movies so damn depressing or violent....
Okay, I absolutely second and third the nominations of "Giant" as representing the American experience . .
And what about "Hoop Dreams?" Come on . . .
And even "Thelma and Louise?"
And, I would even add, not facetiously, that Will Ferrell movie about NASCAR. A Brit friend of mine watched it and she didn't get it at all, which means it's pretty American.
And what about "Hoop Dreams?" Come on . . .
And even "Thelma and Louise?"
And, I would even add, not facetiously, that Will Ferrell movie about NASCAR. A Brit friend of mine watched it and she didn't get it at all, which means it's pretty American.
# posted by : 9:28 PM
: 9:28 PM
While there are certainly a lot of liberal writers and actors, it’s odd that the movie/TV industry ultimately reinforces a fairly conservative viewpoint. It might lean left politically, but TV is not about disruptive and radical agendas. It wants us to be comfortable, and it certainly promotes a certain view of America the Beautiful. Sorkin may be liberal, but he’s also an American triumphalist who believes in our institutions and our people. Which is conservative in the truest sense of the word.
Cop shows tend to be conservative in the sense that they promote law and order. 24 is practically reactionary (some have called it terror porn). Heck, even one of the most subversive shows in TV history, Twin Peaks, portrayed cops in an almost fawning good light. I can’t think of a show that puts our military in a bad light (even MASH was pro-military despite being anti-war). SNL hasn’t been subversive in about 30 years, and their send-ups of politicians ultimately don’t mean anything. There’s not a sketch comedy show like Mr. Show on anymore.
TV and movies (less so) reinforce our cultural institutions. It’s not about rocking the boat.
As for movies which capture America, trying to throw some new ones on the list:
Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
Eight Men Out
Citizen Kane
Glengary Glen Ross
Parenthood
Seabiscuit
Fight Club
Fried Green Tomatoes
Boyz N the Hood
The Blair Witch Project (seriously, what could be more American than getting off your lazy duff and making your own movie for a few hundred bucks that would gross millions of dollars, almost entirely because of a viral marketing campaign? It’s the ultimate example of the can-do spirit)
Cop shows tend to be conservative in the sense that they promote law and order. 24 is practically reactionary (some have called it terror porn). Heck, even one of the most subversive shows in TV history, Twin Peaks, portrayed cops in an almost fawning good light. I can’t think of a show that puts our military in a bad light (even MASH was pro-military despite being anti-war). SNL hasn’t been subversive in about 30 years, and their send-ups of politicians ultimately don’t mean anything. There’s not a sketch comedy show like Mr. Show on anymore.
TV and movies (less so) reinforce our cultural institutions. It’s not about rocking the boat.
As for movies which capture America, trying to throw some new ones on the list:
Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
Eight Men Out
Citizen Kane
Glengary Glen Ross
Parenthood
Seabiscuit
Fight Club
Fried Green Tomatoes
Boyz N the Hood
The Blair Witch Project (seriously, what could be more American than getting off your lazy duff and making your own movie for a few hundred bucks that would gross millions of dollars, almost entirely because of a viral marketing campaign? It’s the ultimate example of the can-do spirit)
Fried Green Tomatoes is one of my favorites. A movie about tolerence and intolerance in the south. I also like Mississippi Burning. I guess living in the south for the past 24 years has gotten to me.
Just a thought or two on yesterday's comments.
1. Thanks for the kind review, goose.
2. I love Fried Green Tomatoes, christine. Great cast, entertaining film, thoughtful message.
I have only seen Mississippi Burning once (in the theater, 20??? years ago). Not one of my favorites. My sense at the time was that it missed the subtlety of race relations in the South.
FYI: one of the reasons I picked O' Brother, Where Art Thou? is that I thought the Coens dealt with race with a lot more nuance than most. Same for To Kill A Mockingbird.
3. Poseur: thanks for the provocative take on my political thesis. However, I think your critique assumes a slightly dissimilar definition of "liberal" or "left-leaning" than I do.
You assert that the media is not "radical" or "subversive." I agree--but thankfully, the Democratic Party is not radical or subversive either. The GOP and the Dems both buy into the institutions of the United States. Barack Obama has no intention of burning the place down and raising the red flag of chaos and/or revolution.
But there is a difference in the party of Barack and the party of McCain. Our liberal versus conservative labels may be lacking--but they speak to a difference.
BTW, your post speaks to the truism that the differences are not nearly as wide as we tend to think during the heat of an election battle.
But Barack and John are different. When I say the media is "liberal," I only mean that they are "liberal" in the same sense that Barack Obama and Democrats are "liberal." One simple meaning is that the "liberal" media is rooting for Barack and against John.
As for the movies, poseur, great list. I happily embrace all your films--with the possible exception of Citizen Kane, which I consider vastly over-rated.
1. Thanks for the kind review, goose.
2. I love Fried Green Tomatoes, christine. Great cast, entertaining film, thoughtful message.
I have only seen Mississippi Burning once (in the theater, 20??? years ago). Not one of my favorites. My sense at the time was that it missed the subtlety of race relations in the South.
FYI: one of the reasons I picked O' Brother, Where Art Thou? is that I thought the Coens dealt with race with a lot more nuance than most. Same for To Kill A Mockingbird.
3. Poseur: thanks for the provocative take on my political thesis. However, I think your critique assumes a slightly dissimilar definition of "liberal" or "left-leaning" than I do.
You assert that the media is not "radical" or "subversive." I agree--but thankfully, the Democratic Party is not radical or subversive either. The GOP and the Dems both buy into the institutions of the United States. Barack Obama has no intention of burning the place down and raising the red flag of chaos and/or revolution.
But there is a difference in the party of Barack and the party of McCain. Our liberal versus conservative labels may be lacking--but they speak to a difference.
BTW, your post speaks to the truism that the differences are not nearly as wide as we tend to think during the heat of an election battle.
But Barack and John are different. When I say the media is "liberal," I only mean that they are "liberal" in the same sense that Barack Obama and Democrats are "liberal." One simple meaning is that the "liberal" media is rooting for Barack and against John.
As for the movies, poseur, great list. I happily embrace all your films--with the possible exception of Citizen Kane, which I consider vastly over-rated.
I think my greatest fault with this post is in its loose use of the terms "liberal" and "conservative." These terms are thrown around for political will, to coerce rather than to represent, and their marginalizations are only damaging to the construction of a society, which, as a state trying to continue to live as a nation-state, is our goal.
But the definitions of these terms are implicit in the post. The list of films, ostensibly so oddly paired with a discussion of media bias, and its omissions delimits the bounds of "conservativism."
Conservatives see America as themselves (or they want to); as Palin says, "Obama does see America like you and I do." So the list of films is, admittedly, of white men. If the admission reveals self-awareness, why not recognize the limitations and attempt to represent America as it actually is, rather than as you see yourselves? (White, male, ...)
Liberals see America as diverse, troubled, with unfulfilled potential. So the list of films we see from Poseur (some), Christine (esp. second post), and Swissgirl represent women and African-Americans. These are a step. To continue to work towards (note the processive verb) the real diversity of America: Stand and Deliver? Boys Don't Cry? Midnight Cowboy? (I'll second Hoop Dreams too!)
Conservatives see this as a false representation of a panoply of random minority groups: tokenism. Liberals see this as an attempt to reconcile our troubled past as a nation-state, and to begin to work towards our potential.
These are my definitions, and my analysis of the definitions laid out implicitly by the films listed. Ultimately, to end with my first point, it is problematic to schematize the nation-state into conservative and liberal, as our multiple identities and allegiances complicate such simplicity. We decide to vote one way or another based on whatever issues may be most important to us, but A) those shift, and B) they do not preclude the other aspects of our identities that belie these dichotomous choices.
But the definitions of these terms are implicit in the post. The list of films, ostensibly so oddly paired with a discussion of media bias, and its omissions delimits the bounds of "conservativism."
Conservatives see America as themselves (or they want to); as Palin says, "Obama does see America like you and I do." So the list of films is, admittedly, of white men. If the admission reveals self-awareness, why not recognize the limitations and attempt to represent America as it actually is, rather than as you see yourselves? (White, male, ...)
Liberals see America as diverse, troubled, with unfulfilled potential. So the list of films we see from Poseur (some), Christine (esp. second post), and Swissgirl represent women and African-Americans. These are a step. To continue to work towards (note the processive verb) the real diversity of America: Stand and Deliver? Boys Don't Cry? Midnight Cowboy? (I'll second Hoop Dreams too!)
Conservatives see this as a false representation of a panoply of random minority groups: tokenism. Liberals see this as an attempt to reconcile our troubled past as a nation-state, and to begin to work towards our potential.
These are my definitions, and my analysis of the definitions laid out implicitly by the films listed. Ultimately, to end with my first point, it is problematic to schematize the nation-state into conservative and liberal, as our multiple identities and allegiances complicate such simplicity. We decide to vote one way or another based on whatever issues may be most important to us, but A) those shift, and B) they do not preclude the other aspects of our identities that belie these dichotomous choices.
# posted by : 9:42 AM
: 9:42 AM
septimus:
Great observations.
You seem to deride and embrace the paradoxical human impulse to label ourselves and others.
You seem to be saying with one breath, "labels are useless"--then, with the next, "conservatives see..., liberals see...."
Are liberals and conservatives different in the way they view the world? Or, are these labels a false distinction for an America yearning to be united?
The answer is probably "yes" (that is, both positions are right--and many more answers are out there to be explored).
You note that the films and the essay are an odd pair. I think you are right. In my mind, they evolved separately and organically.
I think the confusion comes (or the real truth is revealed, perhaps) with the unintentional on my part overlap of media (film, of course, is an important American medium). If I had been thinking better, I would have spoken to the relationship between the two.
And, finally, I probably did not drive home the point that this is not THE definitive list of films that illustrate America. It is "a" list of "my" favorites.
Your list (like all the other alternative lists) tells us much about you and your view of America--which is just as valuable.
Great observations.
You seem to deride and embrace the paradoxical human impulse to label ourselves and others.
You seem to be saying with one breath, "labels are useless"--then, with the next, "conservatives see..., liberals see...."
Are liberals and conservatives different in the way they view the world? Or, are these labels a false distinction for an America yearning to be united?
The answer is probably "yes" (that is, both positions are right--and many more answers are out there to be explored).
You note that the films and the essay are an odd pair. I think you are right. In my mind, they evolved separately and organically.
I think the confusion comes (or the real truth is revealed, perhaps) with the unintentional on my part overlap of media (film, of course, is an important American medium). If I had been thinking better, I would have spoken to the relationship between the two.
And, finally, I probably did not drive home the point that this is not THE definitive list of films that illustrate America. It is "a" list of "my" favorites.
Your list (like all the other alternative lists) tells us much about you and your view of America--which is just as valuable.
Great discussion! For some of it, I was at Appomatox Court House and Harper's Ferry. If the lising was of most American places, I would include both.
In light of Septimus' comments, I would also add:
Spellbound.
It's about the kids who are finalists in a national spelling bee. Shows the American Dream very very well, from the perspectives of kids from all social and ethnic backgrounds. I showed it to my English class when I was working in India, and they really identified with it since a couple of the kids in the movie were Indian. They also identified with the poor, rural kids . . . overall were fascinated by it.
Spellbound.
It's about the kids who are finalists in a national spelling bee. Shows the American Dream very very well, from the perspectives of kids from all social and ethnic backgrounds. I showed it to my English class when I was working in India, and they really identified with it since a couple of the kids in the movie were Indian. They also identified with the poor, rural kids . . . overall were fascinated by it.
# posted by : 8:56 AM
: 8:56 AM
Okay, one more:
West Side Story
Again, for the representation of the American Dream in its reality . . . if you listen to the words, there's a whole lot there.
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West Side Story
Again, for the representation of the American Dream in its reality . . . if you listen to the words, there's a whole lot there.
# posted by : 8:59 AM
: 8:59 AM << Home
