Tuesday, April 10, 2007
Imus in the Mourning...
I know IPLawGuy has been an Imus fan; I've never really listened to his show. However, I am aware of the controversy he has generated, by calling the members of the Rutgers women's basketball team "nappy headed ho's." I don't think it's illegal, or should be, to say something that wrong, but I hope the marketplace reacts pretty strongly.
In my mind, what was wrong about Imus' statement was that it was both untrue and insensitive. It's rare that someone so publicly says something that is both, and the way I am using those terms is important. First, what he said just isn't true. That matters. And to call female athletes (who had just accomplished something pretty remarkable) prostitutes is a particularly terrible untruth. It doesn't help that he seemed to be trying to sound "black" himself at the time.
I wouldn't have such a problem with a comment that was insensitive and true, though that still would be a mistake. For example, it is true (and really unfortunate) that we only have a few African-American students at Baylor Law School. If I mention this to my colleagues in a meeting in which we are devising strategies to remedy this problem, that's not insensitive. However, if an African-American high school student is asking me at a career day about law, and my only response is to shrug and say we don't have many black students, that's an insensitive use of that truth that I should avoid, because of the implication that the student I'm talking to shouldn't try to enter the field of law.
There is a danger in not making the distinctions I am raising here, and that is that if we demonize any discussion of race, then no one will dare to talk about it, and race IS something we need to talk about in this country. While Imus is wrong to make such untrue, insensitive remarks, it is also wrong when some people decry someone as racist for stating a truth about race in public in a way that is not insensitive. For example, the problems in predominately black public schools need to be discussed by communities as a whole, but people are scared to because if they are white, they risk being labeled a racist. Similarly, if a non-Jew questions Israeli policy, they risk being called anti-Semitic, and that is also wrong (if what they are saying is based on truths).
Finally, those that condemn Imus should also condemn the similar statements made in the black media, particularly in music and comedy. If it is wrong on Imus (and it is), it is also wrong on BET.
In my mind, what was wrong about Imus' statement was that it was both untrue and insensitive. It's rare that someone so publicly says something that is both, and the way I am using those terms is important. First, what he said just isn't true. That matters. And to call female athletes (who had just accomplished something pretty remarkable) prostitutes is a particularly terrible untruth. It doesn't help that he seemed to be trying to sound "black" himself at the time.
I wouldn't have such a problem with a comment that was insensitive and true, though that still would be a mistake. For example, it is true (and really unfortunate) that we only have a few African-American students at Baylor Law School. If I mention this to my colleagues in a meeting in which we are devising strategies to remedy this problem, that's not insensitive. However, if an African-American high school student is asking me at a career day about law, and my only response is to shrug and say we don't have many black students, that's an insensitive use of that truth that I should avoid, because of the implication that the student I'm talking to shouldn't try to enter the field of law.
There is a danger in not making the distinctions I am raising here, and that is that if we demonize any discussion of race, then no one will dare to talk about it, and race IS something we need to talk about in this country. While Imus is wrong to make such untrue, insensitive remarks, it is also wrong when some people decry someone as racist for stating a truth about race in public in a way that is not insensitive. For example, the problems in predominately black public schools need to be discussed by communities as a whole, but people are scared to because if they are white, they risk being labeled a racist. Similarly, if a non-Jew questions Israeli policy, they risk being called anti-Semitic, and that is also wrong (if what they are saying is based on truths).
Finally, those that condemn Imus should also condemn the similar statements made in the black media, particularly in music and comedy. If it is wrong on Imus (and it is), it is also wrong on BET.
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Not to do with Imus per se... I don't know if it's right or not, but I almost always check myself when I'm about to voice something to do with race. I guess this is self-censorship, but it sure does seem like we've somehow created a climate where only those who are *of* are "allowed" to comment *about*.
I have occasionally listened to Imus, though usually not for long (and usually only if I've found myself driving into the City - yes, THE city - in the morning). Most of the time it's frat-type stuff I finally grew out of in my late 20's. But now it's something else, and I think he should go.
Unfortunately, America being America, I don't think he'll lose his job unless advertisers drop his show in the wake last week's horrible statements. The Golden Rule of commerce isn't the same as the Golden Rule of scripture.
The only way I can see him resigning is if his meeting with the team so moves him that he sees he must take that course. Otherwise, I'm afraid he'll be back on the air.
Imus spawned a pretty awful creature, though, the Shock Jock. I remember all too well Howard Stern calling Air Florida to ask what was the fare from Washington National Airport to the 14th Street Bridge... I also remember "The Greaseman" (Doug Tracht) stating, as he began his afternoon show on the day of the very first MLK holiday, that it was "too bad they didn't shoot four more, so we could've had a whole week off."
I wish all these guys would go away. But they won't.
I have occasionally listened to Imus, though usually not for long (and usually only if I've found myself driving into the City - yes, THE city - in the morning). Most of the time it's frat-type stuff I finally grew out of in my late 20's. But now it's something else, and I think he should go.
Unfortunately, America being America, I don't think he'll lose his job unless advertisers drop his show in the wake last week's horrible statements. The Golden Rule of commerce isn't the same as the Golden Rule of scripture.
The only way I can see him resigning is if his meeting with the team so moves him that he sees he must take that course. Otherwise, I'm afraid he'll be back on the air.
Imus spawned a pretty awful creature, though, the Shock Jock. I remember all too well Howard Stern calling Air Florida to ask what was the fare from Washington National Airport to the 14th Street Bridge... I also remember "The Greaseman" (Doug Tracht) stating, as he began his afternoon show on the day of the very first MLK holiday, that it was "too bad they didn't shoot four more, so we could've had a whole week off."
I wish all these guys would go away. But they won't.
i will defer to your judgement on the lack of nappiness of their hair. But how do you know they aren't ho's? Is there something that you aren't telling us?
just to be clear...imus is an idiot.
just to be clear...imus is an idiot.
# posted by 
: 8:43 PM
: 8:43 PM
The support that Imus has been receiving in the wake of these remarks is disturbing for the mindset it exposes. For example, Newsweek editor Howard Fineman asserted: "[I]t's a different time, Imus ... it's different than it was even a few years ago, politically," and added that "some of the stuff that you used to do, you probably can't do anymore." Can't do anymore? As of a few years ago?
Fineman and Tom Oliphant both decided to use the same curiously inappropriate metaphor for Imus' racist remarks: running off the rails. Fineman said "You know, the form of humor that you do here is risky, and sometimes it runs off the rails." Oliphant said "But even I could see the beginning of what appeared to me to be a riff. And the train went off the tracks, which, you know, can happen to anybody. And, of course, what counts when the train goes off the tracks is what you then do." As though it were somehow inevitable that, you know, if you don't pay close attention to what you're saying, those racist sentiments will just come tumbling out uncontrollably.
Fineman and Tom Oliphant both decided to use the same curiously inappropriate metaphor for Imus' racist remarks: running off the rails. Fineman said "You know, the form of humor that you do here is risky, and sometimes it runs off the rails." Oliphant said "But even I could see the beginning of what appeared to me to be a riff. And the train went off the tracks, which, you know, can happen to anybody. And, of course, what counts when the train goes off the tracks is what you then do." As though it were somehow inevitable that, you know, if you don't pay close attention to what you're saying, those racist sentiments will just come tumbling out uncontrollably.
# posted by : 8:45 PM
: 8:45 PM
The comments were untrue, insensitive and just plain wrong.
I do listen and enjoy Imus's interviews of journalists and politicians. He keeps them on the air and doesn't let them off the hook. The sophomoric humor is stupid and ignore that. But he really does a great job of making people ANSWER QUESTIONS. Only Tim Russert does a better job.
One time someone dodged a question and Imus said, "I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention, I asked you...." and the guest had to answer.
I don't care if he stays or goes, though. If he goes, I'll just go back to listening to music in the morning and with XM radio, I can do that.
OK, sometimes I listen to NPR. But mostly its tunes.
The question in this case and in other cases when people say dumb things in public is whether ANY apology is sufficient.
Is "capital punishment" the only answer. Imus apologized repeatedly and pretty convincly on Sharpton's radio show -- I heard a clip on CNN this morning and read a couple articles about it. He also said Sharpton was within his rights to say whatever he wanted about the whole thing. Imus also said he had been humiliated.
So is that enough?
We as a nation forgive some "misstatements," but not others. Why is that?
I do listen and enjoy Imus's interviews of journalists and politicians. He keeps them on the air and doesn't let them off the hook. The sophomoric humor is stupid and ignore that. But he really does a great job of making people ANSWER QUESTIONS. Only Tim Russert does a better job.
One time someone dodged a question and Imus said, "I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention, I asked you...." and the guest had to answer.
I don't care if he stays or goes, though. If he goes, I'll just go back to listening to music in the morning and with XM radio, I can do that.
OK, sometimes I listen to NPR. But mostly its tunes.
The question in this case and in other cases when people say dumb things in public is whether ANY apology is sufficient.
Is "capital punishment" the only answer. Imus apologized repeatedly and pretty convincly on Sharpton's radio show -- I heard a clip on CNN this morning and read a couple articles about it. He also said Sharpton was within his rights to say whatever he wanted about the whole thing. Imus also said he had been humiliated.
So is that enough?
We as a nation forgive some "misstatements," but not others. Why is that?
# posted by : 10:44 PM
: 10:44 PM
I have never been an IMUS fan, because frankly he kind of creeps me out. However, I think that the market place is responding. There are a number of sponsors that have tonight pulled their support for his show, including Bigelowe tea, Staples and Proctor & Gamble, which everyone knows is huge.
That he is racist is sad, but he is probably not alone. It will be sad if he is allowed to keep having a a forum for his comments, because he should not be able to abuse that privilege. For some reason if his comments had been ONLY sexist, he would not be in any trouble. Look at Howard Stern... he is somewhat of a pig but he has a huge show. The networks never seemed to care what he said.
The truth is, the main thing here is money. NBC and CBS will not carry this guy if the sponsors all walk away, and it looks like they have. i just wish they would more closely examine other people who say icky things all the time and no one blinks.
That he is racist is sad, but he is probably not alone. It will be sad if he is allowed to keep having a a forum for his comments, because he should not be able to abuse that privilege. For some reason if his comments had been ONLY sexist, he would not be in any trouble. Look at Howard Stern... he is somewhat of a pig but he has a huge show. The networks never seemed to care what he said.
The truth is, the main thing here is money. NBC and CBS will not carry this guy if the sponsors all walk away, and it looks like they have. i just wish they would more closely examine other people who say icky things all the time and no one blinks.
# posted by : 11:44 PM
: 11:44 PM
The worst one I mean really bad recently was not only the Michael Richards thing, but I suspect that he is just crazy or something.. I mean what he said was just SO out there... no one even knew what to make of it.
Just a few days ago that one Republican guy whose name escapes me compared himself to a holocaust victim...was it Tom Delay?
Then Rush Limbaugh , when Jerry Garcia died,. calling him "just another dead druggie" only to find out later that he was an addict himself...
I am with you, TallTenor. I wish they all would go away. This is the United States where we all get a say, and tonight at least Corporate America voted with their wallets against Imus.
Just a few days ago that one Republican guy whose name escapes me compared himself to a holocaust victim...was it Tom Delay?
Then Rush Limbaugh , when Jerry Garcia died,. calling him "just another dead druggie" only to find out later that he was an addict himself...
I am with you, TallTenor. I wish they all would go away. This is the United States where we all get a say, and tonight at least Corporate America voted with their wallets against Imus.
# posted by : 11:51 PM
: 11:51 PM
Heck, "ho" is my favorite word.
Rush was wrong about Jerry Garcia, though. Garcia could kick Rush's butt while on 17 different unnatural substances made in a Bakersfield trailer park.
--Stef the Pef still can't sign on, and still blames "restech" for that
Rush was wrong about Jerry Garcia, though. Garcia could kick Rush's butt while on 17 different unnatural substances made in a Bakersfield trailer park.
--Stef the Pef still can't sign on, and still blames "restech" for that
# posted by : 2:51 PM
: 2:51 PM
I am with you Tyd, I don't get the appeal of Imus in the first place, or Stern. To me, what Imus said is less about racism than about ignorance and ugliness. What really disturbs me is that, as you said, we accept this sort of filth if it is not race-based, but only sexist.
I do not have a problem with most of what I see on BET, though. Urban slang used by someone who grew up in the ghetto is one thing, it can be a form of expressing concepts and feelings that are foreign to the mainstream. But, I do agree that there are words that go to far, no matter who speaks them. Words have the power to resurrect deep pain, and make individuals feel violated and shamed. These words should not be illegal, but I see no reason for them to be a part of the Market.
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I do not have a problem with most of what I see on BET, though. Urban slang used by someone who grew up in the ghetto is one thing, it can be a form of expressing concepts and feelings that are foreign to the mainstream. But, I do agree that there are words that go to far, no matter who speaks them. Words have the power to resurrect deep pain, and make individuals feel violated and shamed. These words should not be illegal, but I see no reason for them to be a part of the Market.
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