Osler's Razor

You might as well ask how to stop crime or people doing bad things in general. Terrorism is not a unique or disconnected problem from the general problems of the world.

Like law enforcement, either your option (1) or (2) is still responsive. If you want less terrorists, then the conditions that give rise to terrorism must end. It is much more comforting to tell people that terrorists are motivated out of a desire to "do evil" or "be bad" than it is to admit that they act out of complex human reasons. This young man from Nigeria's motivations, were we to examine them, would likely turn out to be a strange mix of religion, theology, politics, economics and nationalism. How do you stop those things?

I don't think you can; I think you respond just as we always have, as humans always will. You find out where the flaw in your admittedly flawed security plan was, plug up that hole, and go about your life.
 

This just in on NPR - 'apparently' some 'former' detainees of Saudi descent are now part of Al Qaeda in Yemen.

Now back to the question of the day. What to do? Find the holes and plug the holes the best you can. Someone or group that is determined to create havoc and kill others will always try to find a way. Some will fail and unfortunately some will succeed. The best mousetrap can still get outsmarted by the mouse.
 

Wasn't this guy stopped by an alert passenger? Wasn't the shoe bomber also stopped by an alert passenger?

It seems like all the near misses we hear about in the news have nothing to do with either option 1 or 2, but alert passengers.

I'm not saying we foster an environment where kids rat out their parents a la 1984, but a little public education never hurt anyone.
 

While it may be more "comforting" to tell people that terrorists are motivated out of a desire to "do evil" or "be bad," it is also more truthful. The classic refrain of "if you want fewer terrorists, then get rid of the causes of terrorism" doesn't really hold up when applied to the Underwear Bomber or generally to Al Qaeda.

The Underwear Bomber was not some oppressed Palestinian who had been hounded by the Israelis for years and had enough of the poverty, the mistreatment, and the lack of opportunities that he finally decided to end it all and take as many people with him as he could. He was not some lower class citizen of some far flung kingdom run by a two-bit despot propped up who uses the secret police to suppress freedom and opportunity. Instead, the Underwear Bomber was a rich, upper class, educated, English football loving (admittedly troubled) kid. Bin Laden is from one of the richest families in Saudi Arabia. He had every chance in the world to make something of his life and he chose to become a mass murderer. Lane is exactly right when he says complex factors cause terrorism, but let's not pretend that evil people doing evil things are not the main cause.

That and Saudi Arabia exporting Wahabi-ism. That's a big one too. Also, to pre-empt RRL, the Underwear Bomber was a Liverpool fan, but that's no reason for Man U supporters to go on jihad.

AMT
 

The Underwear Bomber (best bomber name ever? Should it be shortened to "Unda-Bomber"?) was a Liverpool fan??

Then the solution is simple. Kill all Scousers. Done and done.

TJ - the Unda-Bomber was stopped by a faulty bomb that didn't ignite properly. Had it worked correctly nobody would've had time to get to him.

By the way, John Ashcroft suggested exactly what you're calling for when he said we should all be "on the look out" for suspicious people. The reaction was not kind from the left. I couldn't find the real nutjob "Ashcroft is a fascist" reactions from DailyKos or anything, but here is one reaction:

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=i_snoop

Oh, and I agree with AMT. Except I'm largely in favor of a jihad against Liverpool.
 

Well said AMT. I would only add that we should be careful by trying to attach blame narrowly to Wahhabism. The "Arab Street" finds many reasons to hate us without reliance on principles of Wahhabism. Note that the Taliban do not subscribe to Wahhabism.

Islam twisted for violent purposes is simply Islam twisted for violent purposes. What we have are very angry people that look for justification for what would be an otherwise immoral act. They turn to Islam to find such justification.

Our policies and inability to communicate effectively with the average muslim in the middle east leads to the problem. We talk about our media and "spin." In comparison, the "spin" that occurs in the middle east is on a completely different level.

That said, our efforts at communication should be with those that are on the fence deciding whether violence is the correct path. Those that have already journeyed down that path should be killed.

BDH
 

Why don't we start by giving a Congressional Medal of Honor to the passenger who stopped this guy? Ratherthan take measures to increase the size and scope of government (which we can all see has been profoundly effective), why not reward citizens who are vigilante and take proactive steps to ensure their fellow passengers' safety, rather than increase spending and further limiting the freedom of ordinary people? Every commentator ice heard has proposed solutions involving more government, when it's clear that this approach has been minimally effective. Maybe it's time to place the responsibility back in the hands of the people.
 

Justin-(1) The award is correctly titled the Medal of Honor, not the Congressional Medal of Honor; (2) the Medal of Honor is reserved for members of the military; (3) the passengers actions, while in hindsight are heroic, were likely motivated primarily by self-preservation-this would not meet the criteria for a Medal of Honor.

And while I applaud your point of your argument to some degree, it borders on vigilante type action. Trained security personnel, whether it be in the airport or on our streets, are there to maintain order within certain parameters. Maybe the focus should be on training and parameters in the argument, not more of what is clearly not working.
 

I am not sure what the answer is but I know this If I have to look at that terrorist underpants picture on the news one more time I am seriously going to HURL.

Happy New Year, By the way!
 

What interest does the U.S. have in letting Yemenese, Afghans, etc. onto planes entering the U.S. Time to use some common sense.
 

Ok, so create a new medal for people who do heroic things to stop terrorism or ensure the safety of their fellow humans. My point was that more government is not the answer, even though that's almost certainly the solution we'll end up seeing. Do any of us feel safer by having to take our shoes off and reduce our liquids to 3 oz. after the incidents we've had? More importantly, are we any safer? I say no.
 

You are right Justin...maybe if we just start exporting weed instead of smoking all of it, we can make them too happy and lazy to try and kill us. Tell you what, why don't we start with exporting the weed you are smoking.
 

Puff puff pass doesn't work across international lines, I'm afraid.
 

Anon 2:53. Justin may have referenced the incorrect medal but there are recognitions given to people at the national level for 'heroic' actions. And although self-preservation might have been a thought (you need to ask him), this passenger made the choice to not sit idlely by and leave it to fate. He acted. His actions were no less heroic than those on the fateful Shanksville, PA flight on 9/11.

The 'undie' bomber as some have dubbed him on this site, may have failed in his mission - the bomb didn't go boom. But one might argue that he still managed to light himself on fire and the quick actions of this passenger kept the undie-bomber from becoming a human fireball and hurting those seated around him or stopping noxious fumes that might have been emitted from this device.

And Justin, I don't feel safer having to remove my shoes at the airport or having to carry microscopically small toiletries when I travel. Just as I didn't feel safer after 9/11 when I was in NY City in (Spring 2003) and encountered armed national guardsmen on the train platforms.

Happy New Year!
 

Please. There's nothing truthful about labelling people's actions as motivated by evil. Even religiously motivated terrorists believe their actions are righteous. To label them otherwise is to give in to bigotry and xenophobia, mindsets that are unethical. End the circumstances that make terrorists think they're justified and you'll cut down on terrorism. End of story.